NESSAholics.com
Vanessa Carlton => General Vanessa Carlton Discussion => Topic started by: Ryou-Neko on March 26, 2008, 05:27:02 pm
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Okay. I've been with Vanessa from the beginning; I heard "A Thousand Miles" when I was in the 5th grade, and immediately went out to buy the CD. That was the first CD I'd ever bought, and I still listen to it. It was a huge hit - all three singles did well on TV and radio, and I expected the same from Vanessa's next album. Then Harmonium came out, and it was unsuccessful for the standards of a major label. One could pass this off as a sophomore slump, or something of the sort. Unfortunately, it's become a foreshadowing to the success of "Heroes and Thieves". Vanessa's newest and third album has sold the least out of all three of her albums, despite a better record label, better promotion, and two singles. (Although, I feel like Nolita Fairytale was a reasonable success, but that's another matter altogether).
What I'm trying to get at is this: not to be a pessimist, but I do not see Vanessa ever breaking into the mainstream again. I don't see her ever having the sales she once did again. And I think, in the back of our minds, we've all known this, but didn't want to accept it. What I really think we should do is just that - accept that Vanessa will never be commercially successful again, and instead focus on the more important things.
Vanessa has managed to remain in full creative control so far throughout her career. For an artist with several top 10 hits under her belt, this is astounding, indeed. Why don't we all just stop worrying about sales and mainstream acceptance? Why don't we focus on the important things? We need to look at this positively. With less sales, Vanessa can maintain creative control throughout the entire extent of her career. She can have a successful career on an independent record label, which would, in turn, free her to be even more experimental and (dare I say) avant garde with her music. She could do what she wants, and what her fans want, instead of succumbing to the control that most major labels wish to enforce - I guarantee that if she can't make a hit doing something she wants on a major label, then she'll be forced to pull a Nelly Furtado or something like that to stay relevant.
Why should we try to save Vanessa's mainstream career when it is obviously not going to ever return to what it once was, when she could have a successful and prosperous career as an independent artist?
Discuss.
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I have been thinking that way ever since Harmonium's disappointing sales. Personally I don't care if she's a popular artist, as long as she keeps making music for me to enjoy.
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vanessa will do what she chooses with her career, no i do not see her as a mainstream artist, its not her style, but if she chooses to, she will be.
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Thank you for finally explaining what I've been wanting to get across for so long, but never knew how to.
I don't think it hurts to support her in everything we can, though, but we don't exactly have to bend over backwards to try.
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I have been thinking that way ever since Harmonium's disappointing sales. Personally I don't care if she's a popular artist, as long as she keeps making music for me to enjoy.
exactly.
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Fans can only do so much, and we are quite a small fanbase. Its up to the labels to decide wether they are going to push her heavily again or not.
I don't think she's particularly interested in being "famous" any more. So its a mute point anyway. As long as she sells enough CDs to justify the cost of making them.
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I don't see her ever having the sales she once did again.
agree, because not many artists have the peak sales they once did.
With less sales, Vanessa can maintain creative control throughout the entire extent of her career.
r-e-a-l-l-y? I thought the more sales the artists have, the more control they will have, the more experimental they will be because the record label will respect and have big love 4 them, as the artists are good money-making machines with their big sales.
Why should we try to save Vanessa's mainstream career when it is obviously not going to ever return to what it once was, when she could have a successful and prosperous career as an independent artist?
if VC is a independent artist, so there will be no tours, no MTV, no VH1, no TV shows, no events-attending... nothing, right? I don't know about you, Neko, but I don't live in the US and to tell you the truth, those things I mention above are the essential ways -I think- for me to see Vanessa. My friends, relatives won't ever see her on the TV and who will care if I talk about VC? Am I going to be the only Vietnamese to love VC?
Independent artists don't have budget for their videos, do they? So we will keep seeing vids like HOM, won't we? Or will we hardly have any vids at all??
and what her fans want.
doubt this. What will happen if your fav artist do whatever you like? Will you still have the hype and anticipation for your artist's new material?
I hardly hear anything about Hanson, Bo Bice, Switchfoot these days. The last thing I heard from them is they have became independent artist.
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Well, I am a Hanson fan, so I make sure I hear what's going on, just like I do with Vanessa...They are doing well as an indie band, releasing their second independent album last year. I don't know how many copies they've sold, but they definitely have enough fans to keep them going for a long, long time. While the public might think they've disappeared, they are still doing what they've always done: Making great music for those of us who care enough to keep coming back for more.
I hope Vanessa can do the same, but I fear she doesn't have as many die-hard fans as they do.
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I have been thinking that way ever since Harmonium's disappointing sales. Personally I don't care if she's a popular artist, as long as she keeps making music for me to enjoy.
I agree....it doesn't really matter if she's famous....as long as she's satisfied....and she's happy and she still tours and records more songs and albums...because were always gonna be Nessaholics no matter what... :D
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I'm not bothered if she breaks into the mainstream or not, but the only thing I'm concerned about is hearing more music from Vanessa in the future...because if you have mainstream success, you're pretty much guaranteed to record & release a new album.
As long as I get to hear new music from Vanessa, all is well (see what I did there? :P).
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r-e-a-l-l-y? I thought the more sales the artists have, the more control they will have, the more experimental they will be because the record label will respect and have big love 4 them, as the artists are good money-making machines with their big sales.
No. The more sales an artist garners, the more control the record label will want to have in order to maintain those sales - they will try to find a formula that makes the artist successful, and have them stick to it with little to no growth from album to album.
if VC is a independent artist, so there will be no tours, no MTV, no VH1, no TV shows, no events-attending... nothing, right? I don't know about you, Neko, but I don't live in the US and to tell you the truth, those things I mention above are the essential ways -I think- for me to see Vanessa. My friends, relatives won't ever see her on the TV and who will care if I talk about VC? Am I going to be the only Vietnamese to love VC?
Independent artists don't have budget for their videos, do they? So we will keep seeing vids like HOM, won't we? Or will we hardly have any vids at all??
I feel like this is untrue. For example - the artists on the record label Saddle Creek all sell something close to what Vanessa does, and they all still give international tours and release videos for every album. It's not difficult to manage.
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r-e-a-l-l-y? I thought the more sales the artists have, the more control they will have, the more experimental they will be because the record label will respect and have big love 4 them, as the artists are good money-making machines with their big sales.
No. The more sales an artist garners, the more control the record label will want to have in order to maintain those sales - they will try to find a formula that makes the artist successful, and have them stick to it with little to no growth from album to album.
... Madonna, Jewel, Garbage, Celine Dion, Kelly Clarkson... They have control and they did change and experience with new sound (though Kelly ended up flopped)
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As long as Vanessa continues to make music, I'll be happy. :D
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As long as Vanessa continues to make music, I'll be happy. :D
Me too! :D
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r-e-a-l-l-y? I thought the more sales the artists have, the more control they will have, the more experimental they will be because the record label will respect and have big love 4 them, as the artists are good money-making machines with their big sales.
No. The more sales an artist garners, the more control the record label will want to have in order to maintain those sales - they will try to find a formula that makes the artist successful, and have them stick to it with little to no growth from album to album.
... Madonna, Jewel, Garbage, Celine Dion, Kelly Clarkson... They have control and they did change and experience with new sound (though Kelly ended up flopped)
I think there's a point where you sell enough albums to where your record company is satisfied. Madonna, Jewel, Celine, and Kelly have all sold millions upon millions of records. Garbage has also gone multiplatinum. But what's the difference between them and Vanessa? Vanessa has sold maybe 3 million albums, out of three albums, the second two of which have flopped.
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V just has to find the right song if she wants the same success as ATM. i hope she does, because honestly..her new cd hasn't affected me as much as her last two have & my fandom for V is really dying down, i think thats how it is for most people. not because she hasn't been successful with this album, she just needs to find the right song to comeback with that connects with people more.
am i making sense?lol
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You're making sense, but I don't think it should be Vanessa's goal in the first place to make a comeback or to connect with as many people as possible. From a musical standpoint, I would venture to say that Heroes and Thieves is by far her best album. As far as connected with as many people, I think the subjects of the songs are broad enough, but at the same time obvious enough to where more people can connect with this album then they could with, say, Harmonium.
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then maybe it's just me, cuz i connected with Harmonium & BnN way more than this album. i mean don't get me wrong, i still like this album. but i dunno, that's just how i feel.
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To be honest, there are every few songs of Vanessa that i can connect with, maybe its cos i've never been in "love". The songs which i probably connect with the most are Twilight and Ordinary Day off her first album.
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I agree with everything said...with V and her management knowing what happened with Harmonium(little to no promotion) you think they would have pushed this one a little bit more than they did...it's as if they are not even trying anymore...and that can be defeating to a long supporting fanbase. I mean come on, all the 'shows' and 'news' posted on here are by fans 'digging' for information all over the internet....she needs to put together a better team, people who believe in the music and who support Vanessa...i support indie bands(on their own record labels) that do everything on their own....it's not hard too do...and i've said it before...whoever runs the myspace......shammmmeeee...myspace is probably how most bands even sell records these days....i know it's about the music and i know vanessa has that mentality but just a better team could do a world of difference.
I just thought the whole reason for signing to The Inc. was to give Vanessa everything that A&M wasn't giving her.....I hardly saw that...hey, atleast she got a 2nd video.
And in defense to all the holics here and myself...I love Vanessa, love her music, love her song writing, her style...just amazing...I praise her everywhere I get the chance...but it's starting to get hard to do because I feel like some of the fans try harder than her 'team' does! And thats when the death of an artist/band comes along. I want to be apart of this, I want to help...but it's getting hard and almost pointless.
IMO!
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I agree with everything said...with V and her management knowing what happened with Harmonium(little to no promotion) you think they would have pushed this one a little bit more than they did...it's as if they are not even trying anymore...and that can be defeating to a long supporting fanbase. I mean come on, all the 'shows' and 'news' posted on here are by fans 'digging' for information all over the internet....she needs to put together a better team, people who believe in the music and who support Vanessa...i support indie bands(on their own record labels) that do everything on their own....it's not hard too do...and i've said it before...whoever runs the myspace......shammmmeeee...myspace is probably how most bands even sell records these days....i know it's about the music and i know vanessa has that mentality but just a better team could do a world of difference.
I just thought the whole reason for signing to The Inc. was to give Vanessa everything that A&M wasn't giving her.....I hardly saw that...hey, atleast she got a 2nd video.
And in defense to all the holics here and myself...I love Vanessa, love her music, love her song writing, her style...just amazing...I praise her everywhere I get the chance...but it's starting to get hard to do because I feel like some of the fans try harder than her 'team' does! And thats when the death of an artist/band comes along. I want to be apart of this, I want to help...but it's getting hard and almost pointless.
IMO!
I agree with you - especially with the part in bold.
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Why should we try to save Vanessa's mainstream career when it is obviously not going to ever return to what it once was
Interesting. Exactly what efforts could you do to save V's mainstream career? The way you worded that sounded like you have been putting in the effort or maybe you could save it if you wanted.
she could have a successful and prosperous career as an independent artist?
How successful? If it's not successful enough, she might decide to do something else, like design jewelry....or something more lucrative. Musically, she may decide to stay totally behind the scenes as a songwriter.
It's one thing when you're 19 and used to having nothing to say "it's all about the music", it's quite another thing when you're 27 and you've become accustomed to a certain lifestyle and have a desire to maintain that lifestyle or possibly lean to a better lifestyle (as do most working people aspire to).
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How successful? If it's not successful enough, she might decide to do something else, like design jewelry....or something more lucrative. Musically, she may decide to stay totally behind the scenes as a songwriter.
It's one thing when you're 19 and used to having nothing to say "it's all about the music", it's quite another thing when you're 27 and you've become accustomed to a certain lifestyle and have a desire to maintain that lifestyle or possibly lean to a better lifestyle (as do most working people aspire to).
From the things she has been saying it doesn't seem like that is the case. She also seems to have sabotaged her own fan base. Dude, she had the most amazing fan base, and still does to a point.
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No, I have not put in any effort other than supporting her career by purchasing her albums and going to her performances. And my point in the first place was that a mainstream career might not be want Vanessa or her fanbase wants. And yes - the standards for independent sales are much lower than those that a major-label artist might have. 100,000 copies (which is what Harmonium sold, I believe), is an exemplary and respected sale count in the independent music business.
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For me, it doesn't matter so much...maybe it's better to not be in the spotlight so much.. imagine seeing her on the cover of a thousand magazine spreading rumours about her? Maybe that's irrelevant, but personally, I think it would be difficult for her to go mainstream, because she would want to appeal to most or all audiences, though I think for her you have to have a certain taste in music..I'd say more mature or calm? Maybe I'm biased..I don't know. But sometimes I do wish she was more mainstream, because it makes me sad when I ask people "You know that song by Vanessa Carlton?" or "Do you know who Vanessa Carlton is?" And they reply "No". Most people might think she's a one hit wonder, because they only really knew her song A Thousand Miles. Oh well, mainstream or not, Vanessa Carlton is my number one.....always will be..her music really speaks to me!
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Vanessa had her shot as 'mainstream'. I don't see a 'comeback' in the cards......and i use the term comeback very loosely because i think The Inc. and Vanessa herself are all happy about she is, and where H & T is..she seems to be happy anyway...I mean if she wasn't happy, she should show alittle bit more initiative...and try harder at pushing the record...it almost seems as if shes given up completely. Yes, I know there was a second 'single', a 2nd 'video' but when you want to steer the ship in an indie way...you gotta go for it and tour, tour, tour. Thats the only way 'indie minded' artists survive.
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she's not indie, though, is she? she's with a major label and her sound is pretty mainstream.
if only mainstream would give her a real chance. which they probably would if only she had more aggressive promotion. and i don't know. is she happy? anyone been to any performances lately?
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Your right, shes not indie. But the way(the little) they promoted the label was very indie minded...so I don't think V or The Inc were expected much of a bigger debut with H & T....the way they are steering ship is very indie, but still not enough to really keep your name in the game. Personally, I think Vanessa jumped onto another label way too quickly...which is easy to do with the way the music industry is changing.
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She should just have her own label.
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It's not hard to do nowadays..especially since she already has a foundation, a name. Lets just hope she goes in the right direction..I'm rooting for her but its getting hard to do so with the little she has given her fans.
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My life sucks right now, but I'm willing to root her on if I knew it was wanted or needed.
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Yes, thank you..and thats totally my point..there has been no appreciation shown at all...I mean half of the 'shows' shes played in last 6 months have been posted and 'dugg up' by board members prowling the internet looking for 'news'. sad.
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I say we work together and do something. Big. Something that has never happened before...major promotion... LOL imagine if we all stood outside her apartment singing her lyrics! Anway, I've read a few threads similar to this topic, and it all mentions the same thing. Not enough promotion/sales. Why doesn't she just do it; go mainstream with her music. I hear enough Miley Cyrus, Jonas Brothers, Justin Timberlake. We need a new sound.. enough pop crap and time for real. Let others hear real soul and realize what music means. Accept different styles. Just go.
** Didn't mean to offend anyone in the mention of the celebrities above.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :o :o :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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I don't think Vanessa really has as strong a fan base as Hanson does at all to keep her going. Hanson is going on 10-11 years now and they seem to continually appease their fans and I'm not sure I'd say the same for Vanessa. Maybe she should tour with them :)
And I like alot of Vanessa's music, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it has gotten progressively better as I'd expected when she first came out of the gate with Be Not Nobody. Alot of her lyrics (not all by any means) seem distant/too abstract to the general public or unrelatable. I mean, how many people were really going to relate to Nolita Fairytale in any specific way??? Then again, I have not been as enthusiastic about much music in general lately - could just be partially my own mood towards it.
But, to be honest, most people don't like her voice. My mom, who likes Vanessa, heard her newest album and said "Why does she sound even younger now? Isn't she almost 30?" I think her voice is cute, and I personally like it, but I'm not sure it *fits* with some of the songs she writes. I think a song like "More Than This" could be even better with maybe a bit more mature voice behind it.
I think she gave away some of her hidden agenda in one of her latest interviews where she talked about being a songwriter (for other artists) and a composer in the future. We'll see. I hope she continues making her own music though. I still like it better than alot of other crap out there.
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I say we work together and do something. Big. Something that has never happened before...major promotion... LOL imagine if we all stood outside her apartment singing her lyrics! Anway, I've read a few threads similar to this topic, and it all mentions the same thing. Not enough promotion/sales. Why doesn't she just do it; go mainstream with her music. I hear enough Miley Cyrus, Jonas Brothers, Justin Timberlake. We need a new sound.. enough pop crap and time for real. Let others hear real soul and realize what music means. Accept different styles. Just go.
** Didn't mean to offend anyone in the mention of the celebrities above.
i totally agree and i think i found her apartment [i want trying to sound like a stalker, i was on frontdoor.com and saw an apartment that looked like the outside of hers.]
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :o :o :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Personally, I found BNN really good and Harmonium incredible.
They were musically addictive and songs you never get bored of.
But H&T? Its really disappointing. Not her sound at all, its more mainstream but she should have stuck to her roots.
As long as she sells enough to keep going who cares about fame?
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Personally, I found BNN really good and Harmonium incredible.
They were musically addictive and songs you never get bored of.
But H&T? Its really disappointing. Not her sound at all, its more mainstream but she should have stuck to her roots.
As long as she sells enough to keep going who cares about fame?
THANKYOU!!
I know I'm not the only one who feels that way!
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I like H&T, but I don't think it's a very cohesive album. The songs don't really go that well together in my opinion. It seems sort of thrown together. And I'm sure she'd have an explanation as to the song order and everything, and maybe lyrically it works, but the songs don't SOUND cohesive I guess. Idk.
I hope her next album will be a little bit more interesting. I am starting to feel a little bit like... yeah, she's done that before. A couple of the songs are different than anything else though (like Spring Street and More Than This)
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I liked Harmonium more, but I found Heroes & Thieves to be a much better album altogether.
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I do like that all of her albums have a different kind of feel to them, musically. Because why would you want to waste your time putting the same music out on a different album(question mark goes here. it`s just not working for some reason)
Heroes and Thieves just strays a little bit farther from what you would usually like, perhaps.
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I do like that all of her albums have a different kind of feel to them, musically. Because why would you want to waste your time putting the same music out on a different album(question mark goes here. it`s just not working for some reason)
Heroes and Thieves just strays a little bit farther from what you would usually like, perhaps.
I agree.
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we all know, but lots of us don't really want to accept it.
but really, we don't want to see Vanessa go mainstream. We just want her to have another big hit like those off of BNN mainly because we all want her to be happy...
well, maybe that's not everyone's opinon, but that's certainly mine.
But i think she's just gonna keep doing her own thing. As long as she's happy, and she still makes music that i enjoy, i could care less if she was mainstream or not.
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naive fool alert? yes.
i don't feel like she's happy? i don't know. the photos and the interviews - meager as they are - seem to show a discontent artist.
and ummm. i want her to have a big hit. i do.
i feel bad about wanting this, almost. because of course i don't want her to sell out. i don't want her to change her sound because of that; her sound is evolving just fine and i love it myself.
but i think that though she says she doesn't need another phenomenal smash like that - and i believe her - i think it wouldn't be unwelcome, either.
i want to be able to say yo guys, i'm a NESSAholic, and not have to explain what that is to my befuddled pals. haha. or no. i don't mind so much that, but when i say "vanessa carlton" i wish someone would say like, "i love that [insert non-ATM song] of hers." and no derisive laughs and "one-hit wonder" remarks.
not that i mind ATM being iconic, either. :]
ummm. yeah. i just think the v sound is so special. me wants to share with the world :]
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i agree, she hasn't looked too happy in past few interviews :(
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But i think she's just gonna keep doing her own thing. As long as she's happy, and she still makes music that i enjoy, i could care less if she was mainstream or not.
i cant agree with u more... i think vanessa's happy in her own way. but ive heard of her that she doesnt care about the mainstream.. she knows that nolita fairytale wouldnt really relate to many cuz its about her...and thats what she really wanted... she just wanna share people how she does right now... and from hearing the song... u'll know she's sounding better... maybe she's not gonna be like before...yknow BIG....but we shouldnt stress about it... cuz we're still hearing her songs..and she's prolly making a new one...(how lucky we are) and that's all the matters...so what if not so many like it...? as long as u like vanessa then stay a fan....cuz even us could give her pressure...so pls, stop complaining of what she does and how she make differene in her music..keep it cool.. cuz thats v, that's how she likes it.. accept it or leave it.
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double post
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I'm rooting for her but its getting hard to do so with the little she has given her fans.
Huh? :x
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I also think that she could do a lot more to promote herself. It seems to me that she doesn't really care anymore.
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There's only so much one person can do with no help.
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There's only so much one person can do with no help.
Yes, but even without help she could do a lot more I think.
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There's only so much one person can do with no help.
Yes, but even without help she could do a lot more I think.
What could she do?
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She could update her myspace-site and homepage on her own and put more stuff online. i know that after returning from malaysia she posted sth on her myspace, but this is all so confusing. she should post that on her HP aswell. She could also put backstage photos online and so on. also fans are searching the internet all the time and find certain interviews etc., but V should put links etc. on her HP, because only people who love her will search the net. everyone vaguely interested in her will find that her HP has no information at all.
i know that other people are suppossed to update her HP, but if they don't do so, V could very well do it on her own plus put a lot more infos on it.
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^I agree..especially about the interviews. More people should be seeing them and getting an idea of Vs inspiration/musical likes ect.
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we all know how amazing that one nessa interview was...she was high and incoherent.
if she keeps acting the way she is, then she should stay away from cameras.
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we all know how amazing that one nessa interview was...she was high and incoherent.
if she keeps acting the way she is, then she should stay away from cameras.
When and where was that? lol
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we all know how amazing that one nessa interview was...she was high and incoherent.
if she keeps acting the way she is, then she should stay away from cameras.
When and where was that? lol
Kiwibox interview.
http://popdirt.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=67175
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we all know how amazing that one nessa interview was...she was high and incoherent.
if she keeps acting the way she is, then she should stay away from cameras.
When and where was that? lol
Kiwibox interview.
http://popdirt.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=67175
wow she seems to be still sleeping... :?
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She reminded me of me in that interview.
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I still don't think she was high, she could've had jet lag or just gotten out of a stressful situation, woken up, pulled an all nighter, etc.
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I still don't think she was high, she could've had jet lag or just gotten out of a stressful situation, woken up, pulled an all nighter, etc.
Yeeeahhh, she does definately look tired.
I know I have a problem getting my stories out. Haha, I say uhm so much and I forget what I was going to say, I say things twice, etc. It's really annoying to listen to myself TRY to speak.