NESSAholics.com
Vanessa Carlton => General Vanessa Carlton Discussion => Topic started by: nosticker on May 03, 2008, 01:27:35 pm
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Hello All,
Pivoting off the posts of BNN's 6th anniversary, I reflected on what it is to be a VC fan. H&T isn't exactly burning up the charts, and it looks as if that no one is doing anything about it except VC herself. Most likely, that's probably about it for the album. The gross failure of the new label to get her on New York radio is just unacceptable, but I'll stop short of dissing The Inc. because they offered her a deal after the pissing contest she had with A&M, and I appreciate Irv's consideration. I realize I don't know the whole story. Budgets are being cut and music biz people are being shown the door, so that may be a contributing factor.
IMO, BNN was good, Harmonium was staggeringly great, and this one is solid, but I don't have the same emotional connection all the way through that I do with the previous albums.
I think I will stick by Vanessa. When all is said and done, she makes good, honest, uncompromising music. The record company suits that don't get her can all go take a long walk off a short pier. I'm a loyal fan in that when I like a band or artist, I stay a fan until something really off-putting takes place(say if VC went techno or electronica or something).
Even then, I'll still enjoy the old stuff.
This won't be a popular viewpoint, but IMO a lot of H&T tracks are a hard sell. Who here can relate to having a rent-controlled apartment in NYC? Stevie Nicks as your buddy? Anyone? What was the last hit song that had a Dalai Lama reference? VC's joy and sorrow comes through in these tracks, and that, being part of her honesty, is what I enjoy about her. She made an album about where she was in 06/07, literally and figuratively. The oft-quoted law is "write what you know".
VC has said that she is NOT a pop princess. Perhaps that's true, but ATM and OD were successful pop singles, some of the best in recent times, and as much as I like it, I grit my teeth a little when I hear Sara Bareilles' "Love Song" on the radio. I wish VC was coming up with things like that. I think she will, and I'll predict the next album will be a return to form.
Those are my views, and I know not everyone shares them. I'd like to hear yours. How do you feel, as fans, some recent, some since the beginning? I'm happy to still be in her corner, and she has all my support.
Dan/NS
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Of course.
I love her and her music.
I agree with you about the connection between 'Heroes & Thieves' and her previous, but IMO, I think this album could have been a huge success if her record company knew how to handle it (and V).
"Hands On Me" should be up on the Billboard charts by now, but it's not. It's not getting any promotion (aside from the gigs Vanessa does) at all. It's terrible.
I remember Irv coming on the forum saying how they'd put 100% into her and have her playing everywhere. Ever since "Nolita Fairytale" dropped, it's been going down hill and it seems like The Inc aren't doing anything about it.
Vanessa once said "you can't promote a record by yourself", and she's right. It's a shame, because 'Heroes & Thieves' could have seriously done well.
I'm not fussed over her having mainstream success though, but I do hope she gets to record another album with them. As you know, a lot of artists get dropped if their album doesn't do shit all on the charts...so yeah...*crosses fingers*.
I do admire the fact that she still managed to remain her self in this industry and in her music and didn't compromise who she is as a person & artist.
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I'll stick with VC as long as possible. I've been here since the beginnning too. I am also a loyal fan when it comes to true and genuine artists like Vanessa.
I hope she will continue to write and play music no matter what happens. I'll always travel to the USA just to see her perform and say hi and hang out with the awesome people called NESSAholics. :wink:
As for the sales, I am sad to see H&T didn't do that well. I admit that it's not your typical pop record and some songs might be "unplayable" on the radio but I think it comes from V's heart and that's what matters to me. "Home" is like the perfect song ever written and just for that alone, I'll cherish H&T for many many years.
Vanessa, if you read me, stick around with us and keep on rocking and you'll always see the lil' French dude coming to your shows and having a blast watching you perform and showcase your amazing piano skills. <333
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Sure! :wink:
I know some people forgotten her after Be Not Nobody, and that is very hard an artist keep making sucess after his first cd...with Vanessa wasn't different...But I guess that true fans never leave to listen his favorite artist...after H&T I still like very much Vanessa.
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"Home" is like the perfect song ever written and just for that alone, I'll cherish H&T for many many years.
Like Ghis, I could cherish H&T just for that one piece of inspiration that's V
all over! I think "Take the glitz back, I want the soul instead" pretty much
relates to the concept at the heart of H&T; a certain amount of this record
was always going to be V distinguishing herself. The way the material has
been pieced into a whole for this record looks more like an alphabet soup;
the key ingredients are all there, it just takes time to find the tasty bits :wink:
Peace
Aaron
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to be honest, i don't even consider myself a fan anymore. the only reason i stick around here is for the idol thread, other artists section & completely off-topic once in a while.
i liked H&T when it first came out, but i have rarely listened to it lately or any of V's music for that matter. i could relate to BnN & Harmonium WAY more than this cd & the music just connected with me more. it sucks cuz i used to be a HUGE V fan & always listened to her music.
also i think another reason why my fandom is dying is because of me becoming more of a Paula Abdul & Criss Angel fan. from experience, they are way more into their fans than V is imo. i've heard some not so great V stories of when people met her where she came across really bitchy to them. i even heard a story from a nessaholic who told her what her music meant to her & stuff & V was like "well that's good" i mean who responds like that? lol. i know she's not always like that, but she just doesn't seem as appreciative as some other artists.
Criss Angel took pics, gave hugs & signed autographs for LITERALLY 1000+ more fans when i met him & does that a lot. & Paula's on the biggest show in the freaking US & is a legend, yet she still took time to come over to me & my friends a couple times during & after the show, hugged us twice, asked our opinion on her new music like she actually cared what we thought & did something amazing for us which i can't talk about lol. even BSB is that way too, they offer soundchecks & meet & greets for their fans & spend forever meeting fans after appearances.
sorry i'm not trying to put V down or anything, just honestly sharing why my fandom is fading. *waits for the backlash*
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well as of right now. I think I will be a great fan of V's for a long while. I am also a great fan of Nine Inch Nails. Them and Vanessa are such great influences to me and my life. I don't know how I would be without hearing their music! I think its just that she can't find a great group of people that will be a good record label and help her out to get her music out to the masses and not just our little community. I still have faith in the Inc. They can come back. Its not the end of the world until they say we are done with Heroes and Thieves. Right now all you can do is assume. But assuming is not always the right choice. I will still be a great fan. I am not going to let one sour meet and greet make me turn my back on her. It was raining in and it was cold and she was getting sick, she's only human. But to sum it up, I will be a a fan of Vanessa's for a long time. As long as she has music I will be a fan. And even if she does not release music, I still have 3 GREAT cd's to listen to for the rest of my life!
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you never said it was raining in the other thread if you were the person i referred to in my reply lol.
but i have still heard other stories of V not being so nice & it kinda made me not like her as much anymore.
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Yeah, if she stops making albums I'll continue to listen to what I have. Eventually I'm guessing I'm not going to be as big of a fan as I am now but that's not to say I'm going to stop listening to the music.
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you never said it was raining in the other thread if you were the person i referred to in my reply lol.
but i have still heard other stories of V not being so nice & it kinda made me not like her as much anymore.
hehe I tend to be no so descriptive. no hard feelings. but I have to read other times were shes like that. I would not want to be all like signing stuff all the time either. But I am not much of a people person. Thats just me though.... but no hard feelings =]
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For me, I am a fan of good music. V makes good music. If she stopped making good music, over time maybe I wouldn't be as big of a fan, but I still would definitely be a fan (see: Furtado, Nelly).
I try not to let my musical opinion of an artist be affected by whether I think they are a good person, etc., because often times I don't even know the person so who am I to really judge. Personally, I've always had good experiences with V, so from my own personal experience she seems cool.
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This has been a great discussion so far.
I've met VC a few times. Most of the time she had plenty of time for us Holics, sometimes she didn't, but I never took it personally, and she always spoke respectfully to me. No complaints!
If I really thought about the A-hole factor in music, my collection would probably shrink to 1/3 of its size.
I'd probably have to get rid of my music as well.
A point I'd like to make is that an artist doesn't owe the fans anything but a good album and a good concert. Plus, I think it's unfair to judge someone based on 12 seconds of an exchange. She didn't say a whole lot to me the first time I met her, but she shook my hand and looked me right in the eye.
I dunno, I shudder to think of what someone would think if they met me right after a bad day, even for a second. Wouldn't be pretty.
Dan/NS
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As long as V keeps creating music that I love, I will be her fan.
It IS off-putting when one of your favorite artists isn't too friendly to you, though. I think it is in her best interest to be as nice as possible to her fans. You can't please everyone, but you sure can try. And if you expect them to buy your music, it's part of your job to do just that.
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A point I'd like to make is that an artist doesn't owe the fans anything but a good album and a good concert. Plus, I think it's unfair to judge someone based on 12 seconds of an exchange. She didn't say a whole lot to me the first time I met her, but she shook my hand and looked me right in the eye.
I dunno, I shudder to think of what someone would think if they met me right after a bad day, even for a second. Wouldn't be pretty.
Dan/NS
true the artist doesn't owe the fans anything besides what you mentioned, but giving them a little extra something always makes me like & respect the artist a lot more.
also we all know Paula has more bad days than most celebs lol, but despite all the scandals shes involved in she is still amazing with her fans. also Criss works like crazy, sometimes he only gets 2 hours of sleep. yet he's like Paula when it comes to his fans. guess thats why i don't understand why i often hear stories of V being kind of moody since she doesn't have to deal with half of the things they do. not saying she has to be sweet & bubbly all the time or anything cuz nobody is..i just wish she was more appreciative of the fans sometimes is all.
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I will always be a fan as long as she keeps making music I love. I don't care whether or not she is a huge commerical success but I just hope she doesn't give up due to lack of it (I mean she's already talking about just writing songs for other people). I also wish she'd come to the UK which probably wont happen without selling more records.
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For me i think i will be a lifelong fan because her music has influenced my life by showing me that if you want to achieve something special, you need to be dedicated and work hard, not give up and to not let others opinions and views change who you really are.
I honestly think Heroes & Thieves was a wonderful album. Although low key with promo, i think it is a beautiful album that has taught me a lot about myself, and vanessa. i cant say that i have been in love, and experienced life yet, but this album broke my heart, mended it and broke it again, the songs really make me think about what life really is, and even if you make mistakes you still have to get out of bed and live. I may sound totally cheesey, but those are my emmotional feelings.
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I think I will remain a fan cause I like her music, love the piano and the melodies she writes.
Heroes and thieves is different, I feel the evolution of her work through this record and even though it's not like the previous ones I like the songs !
I think she'll always be an artist, an excelent piano player and a good singer.
I can't say if I always love her music, people can change their mind or liking, but for now, I'm not disappointed by her music! :D
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I love Heroes & Thieves; in fact, it's the only Vanessa Carlton album I've been keeping in my regular rotation. It's her best work, I believe. I'll be around for the next album.
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I don't see why not, she is one of the very few people who make music that actually makes me feel good; and Heroes & Thieves is as good as BNN or Harmonium, so I don't even ask myself if I will still support her after this, why wouldn't I?
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Her next album better have a better balance in terms of mood and feel, it feels lopsided. H&T is overly bright for my tastes, I mean, whistling during Fools Like Me? lol Ok.
Harmonium will be very hard to top imo.
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I love Heroes and Thieves and with the faith that she will go on making Songs like More than this, Heroes and Thieves, Home or All is well (maybe she will record good songs like this one day) i will stay a fan. But what means a fan. I don't have the chance to go to concerts or to support her really (cos she isn't doing anything in germany). i just love her music and it gives me a lot of strength. So if she's going on making songs i adore and love i surely stay as a nessaholic forever.
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I think it's kind of funny that Vanessa would be rude to anyone meeting her. She really doesn't have a TON of fans. I doubt she is extremely bombarded ever... well, aside from maybe early BNN days. I've never met her but I'd probably be sort of mad if I did meet her and she was rude. If not for the fans, she wouldn't be in a position to make music. And she doesn't even have that many. I agree that being at least polite and curteous is part of the job description. Especially since they make so much more money than the average person even if they are only moderately successful.
But I wouldn't judge her on that until I met her. If she's having a bad day, it's one thing to be short. It's another to be outright sarcastic or mean! I hope she's neither of those, lol
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Trust me, she isn't rude at all, she is so sweet and nice. she's a genuine person. I talked to her, she LOVED my duct tape flowers, said she liked my sneakers
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/iluvvanessacarlton/addidaszx750.jpg)
let me pet lord victor, and stood in the parking lot and let me just talk to her for quite a few minutes. if she was mean, she wouldn;y have acknowledged me and just kept walking.
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as long as i know that nessa is out there writing music i'll be happy
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let me pet lord victor, and stood in the parking lot and let me just talk to her for quite a few minutes. if she was mean, she wouldn;y have acknowledged me and just kept walking.
well that's good to know she was sweet to you.
but everytime she's brought up on a couple other boards i go to people have said she was rude when they saw or met her so yeah i dunno, just what i've heard. that's partly why i've been turned off from being a fan.
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Maybe those people are jealous of her. She really is a sweet person, she was nice to the annoying radio people who were educating her about her own home town. it was really lame.
she is really nice.
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Maybe those people are jealous of her. She really is a sweet person, she was nice to the annoying radio people who were educating her about her own home town. it was really lame.
she is really nice.
lol. i'm jealous of how talented some artists are, but that doesn't mean i'm gonna say they are bitches or anything if they weren't. that doesn't make sense haha.
BUT i am glad V was nice to you & the annoying radio people. that's good to hear.
like i said, only posting what i've read. ya'll know i used to be a huge fan so i wouldn't make something like this up.
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i think H&T is some of her best work. and yes, i'll stick by her til the end. she's changed my life. i want to see her play live until she physically cannot play live anymore, even if no one shows up but me. she needs to find people who truly believe in her to work for her. i thought that was the case with irv, but what is going on?? i don't want to see this one flop like harmonium because of lack of promotion, and i'm scared that it will, or maybe already has. i just hope vanessa doesn't give up on herself because of all of this. she is a rarity and i wish more people would see that. she's the best.
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i think H&T is some of her best work. and yes, i'll stick by her til the end. she's changed my life. i want to see her play live until she physically cannot play live anymore, even if no one shows up but me. she needs to find people who truly believe in her to work for her. i thought that was the case with irv, but what is going on?? i don't want to see this one flop like harmonium because of lack of promotion, and i'm scared that it will, or maybe already has. i just hope vanessa doesn't give up on herself because of all of this. she is a rarity and i wish more people would see that. she's the best.
i'd say it already has. i did think that with "hands on me" they could pull it out of the water because it's a very radio friendly/universal song, but irv isn't doing fuck all for Vanessa at the minute (which is a shame, because made me believe he was really into her music and would be promoting her like hell) so it's bombing. has anybody actually seen it on TV yet?
i do hope she continues to make more music though. i always worry, because when 'harmonium' bombed she was seriously thinking about giving it all up and just writing for musicals, wasn't she? i hope she doesn't give up because of the lack of commercial success for 'heroes & thieves'. she should realise it isn't her that's the problem. she gets great reviews and 9 times out of 10, the people who come across her work end up liking her. the main problem is promotion (or lack thereof).
irv needs to sort his team out and get up off his arse and do something for vanessa. jeez.
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i think H&T is some of her best work. and yes, i'll stick by her til the end. she's changed my life. i want to see her play live until she physically cannot play live anymore, even if no one shows up but me. she needs to find people who truly believe in her to work for her. i thought that was the case with irv, but what is going on?? i don't want to see this one flop like harmonium because of lack of promotion, and i'm scared that it will, or maybe already has. i just hope vanessa doesn't give up on herself because of all of this. she is a rarity and i wish more people would see that. she's the best.
i'd say it already has. i did think that with "hands on me" they could pull it out of the water because it's a very radio friendly/universal song, but irv isn't doing fuck all for Vanessa at the minute (which is a shame, because made me believe he was really into her music and would be promoting her like hell) so it's bombing. has anybody actually seen it on TV yet?
i do hope she continues to make more music though. i always worry, because when 'harmonium' bombed she was seriously thinking about giving it all up and just writing for musicals, wasn't she? i hope she doesn't give up because of the lack of commercial success for 'heroes & thieves'. she should realise it isn't her that's the problem. she gets great reviews and 9 times out of 10, the people who come across her work end up liking her. the main problem is promotion (or lack thereof).
irv needs to sort his team out and get up off his arse and do something for vanessa. jeez.
Yeah, I feel bad for V in that even if she doesn't care if she is famous or that her album goes platinum, I think she'd enjoy at least another moderate success. Given how excited she was for Irv to really like her music, I would imagine she may be a little bummed right now since it's turning into another Harmonium. I think she could come back, at least a little bit, given the right song, but I'm not sure anything on Harmonium or H&T had it. Maybe Who's To Say, but that could just be my own opinion because it's still on my top 5 favorite song list to this day.
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Avoid the temptation to get down on Irv. He has people to answer to and may have been struck down. The other UMG muckity-mucks may not share his enthusiasm, which sucks but some of them sign the checks, so that is the way it goes.
My theory is that Irv's coming up with a new game plan. *fingers crossed*
What really bothers me is the mgmt./promoter(s) she's been working with. She played what, one Joe's Pub gig in NYC for this album, and some other fan-unaffordable charity event or two? That's insane. Something has definitely gone south.
I'd love a comment from VC, at least giving us an idea of what's up, but traditionally it's usually after or right before some big sh** goes down.
Dan/NS
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i have grown to like irv, and i think he has something up his sleeve. im crossing my fingers 24/7
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This whole thread is very interesting to me. I've been thinking about it for a bit and I have a few more comments.
1) As far as V appreciating her fans, I have it on very good authority she appreciates her fans. She's just not the type of person who's all *HUGS* and kissing babies. I know she appreciates each and every person who shows up to her shows, she just really doesn't put that side of herself out there much, and maybe that is where it comes off that she is aloof, rude, and doesn't care. And as far as saying that V hasn't been though this or that so she shouldn't be rude, etc., we have no clue what her life has been like so saying something like that is pretty much a) a low blow, and b) irrelevant.
2) As far as Irv, my guess is he is back to square one with a new plan for all of his artists. He had a little bit of success with Lloyd, but we know how V's singles have done and Ja's "Body" single bombed worse than both of V's and his album release was subsequently pushed back. I'm sure Irv has the heat on him so he's not going to make any rash moves until the time is right.
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i agree with b. i've been watching this thread, i love the thoughtfulness of everyone who's responded to this very valid question, and i've been thinking about what i want to say.
i'll be a NESSAholic forever. vanessa carlton's music - i have no single reason to love it as much as i do, and though there are qualities of her music that i love that turn up in other artists and other music, nothing quite compares to how vanessa brings it all together.
about vanessa the person - i think she does genuinely appreciate us. :] not just because she should, but i think she really does. and if she comes across as aloof/rude - well, we all have bad days. and again, like b said, we don't know what her life is like. and v seems to be a sweet person in general.
um. and irv gotti! the enthusiasm that he has shown for v is still comforting, even if we're not seeing much of the inc's enthusiasm now. he does have other artists that are facing troubles right now, too, so i guess it's understandable if the inc is not giving v the fullest. though they could at least do some of the basic things. like the keeping up the official website and the myspace.
at least the inc seems to appreciate v and we know they have given her artistic freedom. it doesn't seem like anyone's pressuring her. so i'm going to go cross my fingers as well and hoping that irv just has something else planned.
heroes & thieves is a really good. even if i've been listening to harmonium a lot these days, i think heroes & thieves is very radio-friendly. i believe "hands on me" is radio-friendly. i think it could have been (and with a miracle, still has the tiniest slightest chance of becoming) a top10. so uh, it's not over. :] i think v would really suit a lot of people's tastes if she was more well-known. i mean, intelligent, sweet, piano, very slightly quirky soft poprock? with the whole prevailing scene that's giving sara bareilles and marie digby a chance, i think she would fit fine into it. again, if only she had more promotion.
what i really wish is for some more vanessa-presence. i've dug up a few shows, but they're really not in places i can go to and they haven't been publicized for the people who can go to them. and like everyone said, i really wish she would drop us a line sometime.
and this became kind of lonnnng. i'm such a dork for v.
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to be honest, i don't even consider myself a fan anymore. the only reason i stick around here is for the idol thread, other artists section & completely off-topic once in a while.
i liked H&T when it first came out, but i have rarely listened to it lately or any of V's music for that matter. i could relate to BnN & Harmonium WAY more than this cd & the music just connected with me more. it sucks cuz i used to be a HUGE V fan & always listened to her music.
also i think another reason why my fandom is dying is because of me becoming more of a Paula Abdul & Criss Angel fan. from experience, they are way more into their fans than V is imo. i've heard some not so great V stories of when people met her where she came across really bitchy to them. i even heard a story from a nessaholic who told her what her music meant to her & stuff & V was like "well that's good" i mean who responds like that? lol. i know she's not always like that, but she just doesn't seem as appreciative as some other artists.
Criss Angel took pics, gave hugs & signed autographs for LITERALLY 1000+ more fans when i met him & does that a lot. & Paula's on the biggest show in the freaking US & is a legend, yet she still took time to come over to me & my friends a couple times during & after the show, hugged us twice, asked our opinion on her new music like she actually cared what we thought & did something amazing for us which i can't talk about lol. even BSB is that way too, they offer soundchecks & meet & greets for their fans & spend forever meeting fans after appearances.
sorry i'm not trying to put V down or anything, just honestly sharing why my fandom is fading. *waits for the backlash*
Laura, I completely agree with your points about how she acts towards fans.
She is not always the most loving person to her fans, which is a turn off for me to like and follow her.
When I went to her concert at the Bowery Ballroom, she REFUSED to have people take pictures of her. She didn't come out after to sign autographs. When I went to see her at the Bitter End, she ran out of the venue.
Also, I think that she is actually moving away from her roots. She's a pop artist from Pennsylvania who is a classically trained piano player. VANESSA: YOU ARE A POP MUSICIAN. EMBRACE IT, DON'T TRY TO CHANGE IT.
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to be honest, i don't even consider myself a fan anymore. the only reason i stick around here is for the idol thread, other artists section & completely off-topic once in a while.
i liked H&T when it first came out, but i have rarely listened to it lately or any of V's music for that matter. i could relate to BnN & Harmonium WAY more than this cd & the music just connected with me more. it sucks cuz i used to be a HUGE V fan & always listened to her music.
also i think another reason why my fandom is dying is because of me becoming more of a Paula Abdul & Criss Angel fan. from experience, they are way more into their fans than V is imo. i've heard some not so great V stories of when people met her where she came across really bitchy to them. i even heard a story from a nessaholic who told her what her music meant to her & stuff & V was like "well that's good" i mean who responds like that? lol. i know she's not always like that, but she just doesn't seem as appreciative as some other artists.
Criss Angel took pics, gave hugs & signed autographs for LITERALLY 1000+ more fans when i met him & does that a lot. & Paula's on the biggest show in the freaking US & is a legend, yet she still took time to come over to me & my friends a couple times during & after the show, hugged us twice, asked our opinion on her new music like she actually cared what we thought & did something amazing for us which i can't talk about lol. even BSB is that way too, they offer soundchecks & meet & greets for their fans & spend forever meeting fans after appearances.
sorry i'm not trying to put V down or anything, just honestly sharing why my fandom is fading. *waits for the backlash*
Laura, I completely agree with your points about how she acts towards fans.
She is not always the most loving person to her fans, which is a turn off for me to like and follow her.
When I went to her concert at the Bowery Ballroom, she REFUSED to have people take pictures of her. She didn't come out after to sign autographs. When I went to see her at the Bitter End, she ran out of the venue.
Also, I think that she is actually moving away from her roots. She's a pop artist from Pennsylvania who is a classically trained piano player. VANESSA: YOU ARE A POP MUSICIAN. EMBRACE IT, DON'T TRY TO CHANGE IT.
Do you mean the Bitter End show in '05? She didn't run out.
Dan/NS
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This whole thread is very interesting to me. I've been thinking about it for a bit and I have a few more comments.
1) As far as V appreciating her fans, I have it on very good authority she appreciates her fans. She's just not the type of person who's all *HUGS* and kissing babies. I know she appreciates each and every person who shows up to her shows, she just really doesn't put that side of herself out there much, and maybe that is where it comes off that she is aloof, rude, and doesn't care. And as far as saying that V hasn't been though this or that so she shouldn't be rude, etc., we have no clue what her life has been like so saying something like that is pretty much a) a low blow, and b) irrelevant.
she doesn't have to be all hugs & stuff, i just wish she would act a little sweeter sometimes is all. i get some people aren't into hugging lol. & true we don't know what goes on in her life, but it's not like she gets trashed in the media EVERYDAY like Paula does. if Paula can suck it up for her fans after going through that & Criss can suck it up after only getting 2 hours of sleep, i don't know why V can't.
Laura, I completely agree with your points about how she acts towards fans.
She is not always the most loving person to her fans, which is a turn off for me to like and follow her.
When I went to her concert at the Bowery Ballroom, she REFUSED to have people take pictures of her. She didn't come out after to sign autographs. When I went to see her at the Bitter End, she ran out of the venue.
Also, I think that she is actually moving away from her roots. She's a pop artist from Pennsylvania who is a classically trained piano player. VANESSA: YOU ARE A POP MUSICIAN. EMBRACE IT, DON'T TRY TO CHANGE IT.
thank you!! i knew i wasn't making crap up about V when it came to her fans. maybe those were bad days, but that's still kind of messed up she didn't even let you guys take pictures.
Simon Cowell said something recently like "i don't care if people take pictures of me, i'm a celebrity, it comes with the territory" & he's so right imo. especially if it's at an event your fans are at like a concert.
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to be honest, i don't even consider myself a fan anymore. the only reason i stick around here is for the idol thread, other artists section & completely off-topic once in a while.
i liked H&T when it first came out, but i have rarely listened to it lately or any of V's music for that matter. i could relate to BnN & Harmonium WAY more than this cd & the music just connected with me more. it sucks cuz i used to be a HUGE V fan & always listened to her music.
also i think another reason why my fandom is dying is because of me becoming more of a Paula Abdul & Criss Angel fan. from experience, they are way more into their fans than V is imo. i've heard some not so great V stories of when people met her where she came across really bitchy to them. i even heard a story from a nessaholic who told her what her music meant to her & stuff & V was like "well that's good" i mean who responds like that? lol. i know she's not always like that, but she just doesn't seem as appreciative as some other artists.
Criss Angel took pics, gave hugs & signed autographs for LITERALLY 1000+ more fans when i met him & does that a lot. & Paula's on the biggest show in the freaking US & is a legend, yet she still took time to come over to me & my friends a couple times during & after the show, hugged us twice, asked our opinion on her new music like she actually cared what we thought & did something amazing for us which i can't talk about lol. even BSB is that way too, they offer soundchecks & meet & greets for their fans & spend forever meeting fans after appearances.
sorry i'm not trying to put V down or anything, just honestly sharing why my fandom is fading. *waits for the backlash*
Laura, I completely agree with your points about how she acts towards fans.
She is not always the most loving person to her fans, which is a turn off for me to like and follow her.
When I went to her concert at the Bowery Ballroom, she REFUSED to have people take pictures of her. She didn't come out after to sign autographs. When I went to see her at the Bitter End, she ran out of the venue.
Also, I think that she is actually moving away from her roots. She's a pop artist from Pennsylvania who is a classically trained piano player. VANESSA: YOU ARE A POP MUSICIAN. EMBRACE IT, DON'T TRY TO CHANGE IT.
Do you mean the Bitter End show in '05? She didn't run out.
Dan/NS
yeah she did. I was there and I remember literally jumping next to her to get a pic before she sprang out.
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I was in the back when she came out. She apologized and said she had to leave. IIRC she was meeting some family for a party or something. That was good enough an explanation for me.
Dan/NS
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Damn this is a good thread and I have enjoyed reading it. Me and Brian have talked about this several times and I have to agree with him for the most part. I get upset when her talent goes to waste because she is just not getting heard as much as she deserves to. I think H&T for the most part is a great album. Some production stuff was a little iffy but her talent shows in every album she has done. IRV GOTTI, now that is a whole different topic but I thought he would at least make a decent come back to the game but damn I never thought it would be this dismal. Too bad V had to get caught up in that downhill avalanche. I do hope that IRV has a backup plan. I would really like to see V comeback strong and what she needs is just one hit song. I really thought Harmonium had those hits. That album is so underrated it is crazy.
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I don't know if I will be.....but why not make a grassroots effort to get her on the radio? But you need her to be a leader so her career goes in the direction she wants it to go. She has to try to ramp up the excitement with her fans. She just needs to take some initiative. I guess we could start with calling up radio stations.
It is hard work. There is no democrat liberal initiated, corporate welfare, program for selling your music. ;) LOL You can't just wait for government issued checks to roll in after you write and produce it.
EDIT:Yeah, my comments are really wrong. But let's do something about getting her songs out there, for god's sake.
tylor
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I don't know if I will be.....but why not make a grassroots effort to get her on the radio? But you need her to be a leader so her career goes in the direction she wants it to go. She has to try to ramp up the excitement with her fans. She just needs to take some initiative. I guess we could start with calling up radio stations.
It is hard work. There is no democrat liberal initiated, corporate welfare, program for selling your music. ;) LOL
We've tried calling up stations and requesting her stuff like crazy. It doesn't work. Either the DJ's don't have the song, or they'll play "A Thousand Miles" instead of what the current single is. There's only so much that we, as fans, can do.
And I know I've said this before, but I really do feel The Inc could do a lot more than they're doing at the minute...A LOT more.
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I'm still willing to do flyers, but I can understand why they wouldn't want that. I'm kind of a fan at arms length right now.
Is there any ideas out there you have seen done to promote an artist we could try?
Maybe if I get a laptop I'll be around more and we could try something.
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I'm not sure there's anything we can do that will be enough to get her out there & noticed again.
If V's trying to get mainstream success, she'll need everyone's input. It doesn't work if one group of people are willing to put the effort in to helping her.
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I'm not sure there's anything we can do that will be enough to get her out there & noticed again.
If V's trying to get mainstream success, she'll need everyone's input. It doesn't work if one group of people are willing to put the effort in to helping her.
I still have my harmonium t-shirt. I could walk around in that....but that would be a really bad idea...given my current situation....and the fact that I'm probably the most hated person in these parts right now. So much for that idea...
We need help from her to do anything worthwhile. We could have a rally, concert, or booth....I don't know. I'm just going to wait until maybe more people respond to this.
I'm guessing she hasn't even gotten started. Just wait for Hillary's Campaign to wind down...maybe we will see something after that.
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Why are you the most hated person? What'd you do?
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Why are you the most hated person? What'd you do?
Oh I don't know. Sometimes you don't need to do anything. Maybe it is just my own perception on what is going on. In any case, I didn't expect anyone to question that in particular.
Have any ideas?
(maybe this should all be on a seperate thread)
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oh ok.
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I'm not sure there's anything we can do that will be enough to get her out there & noticed again.
If V's trying to get mainstream success, she'll need everyone's input. It doesn't work if one group of people are willing to put the effort in to helping her.
There is only so much the 'Holics can do. We simply cannot replace:
---The support of a record label to get product on the shelves;
---The support of promo people to get the song on the radio;
---The support of promoters to have Vanessa do a proper tour.
It is not a reflection on us or what we can or can't do.
The biz is oiled a certain way, particularly in the area of record promotion. I cannot call up Mr. Music Director at WANK-100 FM and offer him a plasma TV, tickets to the opera, or a night with Ashley Dupre to play VC's music. A promo guy can do that. I'm half kidding, but that is really what goes on in the biz, and it has always been like that.
Labels have people who go around and make sure that stores have the CD's that the artists are supporting as they make their way across the country. There are all kinds of things that need to be in sync and in place in order for an artist to do well. There is no magic involved, just lots of money given to the right people.
When that chemistry is happening between the artist/band/management/label/promoter, it's amazing. Things happen. The song is on the radio. The artist is on TRL, Early Show, 106 & Park, whatever is needed, you name it. Magazines get in depth interviews/reviews timed perfectly with tours/SNL appearances. These things all have to happen simultaneously, or close to it, in order to for things to blow up huge. 99.9% of the public don't know and don't care how this happens and responds to hype. Tons of good music, like VC albums, go largely unheard, even with downloads being more popular than ever, and it makes me sick.
Bottom line: our hands are tied. We're doing our best and should be proud of it. Keep talking about VC, both in life and online. Every little bit helps.
Dan/NS
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i haven't said anything about this yet.. i wanted to, but to be honest, i haven't known what to say.
we've got a great record, in my opinion. i don't really care where she is on what charts. i've said it before - stevie nicks just told her that she's like, the chosen one of singer/songwriters, and it sounds like she's going to keep making music.
which is all we should care about. you've got people talking about her making different music to get on the radio more and that this isn't radio/commercially friendly. WHO GIVES A SHIT. most things that are on the radio right now suck. i thought we wanted a GOOD record. this one sounds like it was the most from her heart anyway. if you don't like it, perhaps you shouldn't be a fan anyway, because if and when we get more music, it may completely be the exact same thing. i have no problem with that, though i'd appreciate it if linda perry went away and all is well and best behavior came back.
you guys are talking like this is the end of the vanessa carlton world. the point is - irv gotti is paying for her to make music. yes, i know, the inc is doing a SHIT job promoting her. absolute shit and they should be ashamed. but again - i just don't care, if we're going to get more music, and vanessa is not going to sell out.
the music industry has changed. A LOT. there are not going to be as many big name artists from the past, who are still big name artists. everyone - besides radiohead, u2, etc. has to fight to get what they deserve. that's just the way it is. there are a ton of people making really good music that are not going to get heard unless you go to a show, or you find them on myspace or you make it a point to buy their album. with promotion - it's all about grassroots. i'm heavily involved in working with third eye blind, and when they get their shit together soon, i'll be heavily working on promo for them. they were a major band in the 90s. but they have to start at the beginning. times have changed, and nothing matters anymore. the people who have taken advantage of myspace and facebook in a BIG way, are the ones you're going to hear about (i.e. kate voegele, etc.). maybe this phone call to vanessa thing is the beginning of something that irv and v have had up their sleeve the whole time. maybe? maybe not.
here's the point - we've got no contact with vanessa. that makes it incredibly hard to do ANYTHING to benefit her. i've been a fan pretty long, but involved a lot less, and it seems that this has always been the deal. third eye blind's core fan group is going to be contributing in a huge way, as they put this album out, and we have contact with Tony (the guitarist), pretty much every day. there's only so much that people are going to be able to do, not sanctioned by vanessa. who knows if she appreciates the effort, and if she even cares.
will you still be a fan after heroes and thieves? what is h&t? the apocalypse? will you still be a fan after the world ends. there's no accounting for taste, i know that. but what most of you people are talking about, is exchanging a record that vanessa worked hard on, that she enjoys, that is VERY GOOD, and picking something else, more commercially friendly. guess what, guys. that's called being a SELL OUT. and i'd rather get great music that doesn't get played on the radio next to shit music, then get shit music and have it be associated with shit music.
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mmm. i think it's a valid question, though.
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will you still be a fan after heroes and thieves? what is h&t? the apocalypse? will you still be a fan after the world ends. there's no accounting for taste, i know that. but what most of you people are talking about, is exchanging a record that vanessa worked hard on, that she enjoys, that is VERY GOOD, and picking something else, more commercially friendly. guess what, guys. that's called being a SELL OUT. and i'd rather get great music that doesn't get played on the radio next to shit music, then get shit music and have it be associated with shit music.
i totally agree with you, the other day, i brought my ipod player to the play i was in and wanted toi share V with other ppl. My ipod was carelessly unplugged and thrown aside countless times so people could listen to "soulja boy" and a song that said fuck every 2 seconds. i would type exactly what it said but i am around the family right now. but it was aweful. and it fitted to the definition of "shit music"
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i haven't said anything about this yet.. i wanted to, but to be honest, i haven't known what to say.
we've got a great record, in my opinion. i don't really care where she is on what charts. i've said it before - stevie nicks just told her that she's like, the chosen one of singer/songwriters, and it sounds like she's going to keep making music.
which is all we should care about. you've got people talking about her making different music to get on the radio more and that this isn't radio/commercially friendly. WHO GIVES A SHIT. most things that are on the radio right now suck. i thought we wanted a GOOD record. this one sounds like it was the most from her heart anyway. if you don't like it, perhaps you shouldn't be a fan anyway, because if and when we get more music, it may completely be the exact same thing. i have no problem with that, though i'd appreciate it if linda perry went away and all is well and best behavior came back.
you guys are talking like this is the end of the vanessa carlton world. the point is - irv gotti is paying for her to make music. yes, i know, the inc is doing a SHIT job promoting her. absolute shit and they should be ashamed. but again - i just don't care, if we're going to get more music, and vanessa is not going to sell out.
the music industry has changed. A LOT. there are not going to be as many big name artists from the past, who are still big name artists. everyone - besides radiohead, u2, etc. has to fight to get what they deserve. that's just the way it is. there are a ton of people making really good music that are not going to get heard unless you go to a show, or you find them on myspace or you make it a point to buy their album. with promotion - it's all about grassroots. i'm heavily involved in working with third eye blind, and when they get their shit together soon, i'll be heavily working on promo for them. they were a major band in the 90s. but they have to start at the beginning. times have changed, and nothing matters anymore. the people who have taken advantage of myspace and facebook in a BIG way, are the ones you're going to hear about (i.e. kate voegele, etc.). maybe this phone call to vanessa thing is the beginning of something that irv and v have had up their sleeve the whole time. maybe? maybe not.
here's the point - we've got no contact with vanessa. that makes it incredibly hard to do ANYTHING to benefit her. i've been a fan pretty long, but involved a lot less, and it seems that this has always been the deal. third eye blind's core fan group is going to be contributing in a huge way, as they put this album out, and we have contact with Tony (the guitarist), pretty much every day. there's only so much that people are going to be able to do, not sanctioned by vanessa. who knows if she appreciates the effort, and if she even cares.
will you still be a fan after heroes and thieves? what is h&t? the apocalypse? will you still be a fan after the world ends. there's no accounting for taste, i know that. but what most of you people are talking about, is exchanging a record that vanessa worked hard on, that she enjoys, that is VERY GOOD, and picking something else, more commercially friendly. guess what, guys. that's called being a SELL OUT. and i'd rather get great music that doesn't get played on the radio next to shit music, then get shit music and have it be associated with shit music.
You're on a whole bunch of different things, and I cannot tell if any of them address points I've made, or not.
Like it or not, H&T represents a turning point for VC. It's not the apocalypse, but I feel some are ready to jump ship. I'm not going to.
I'm an old school Nessa fan, and while I hope everyone is with me, it really wouldn't affect me if everyone wasn't. There's still no one like V today. Sales mean nothing to me. Neither do trends, what is HIP or what isn't HIP. Vanessa's music does something for me. From Nolita back to ATM, I always turn the music up. I'm compelled to, and I can't fully explain it. Neither can most of us, and neither can Irv. She has that "something". Stevie knows this, too!
I'll defend what I've said about the saleability of some of H&V, because I DO want to see Vanessa as successful as possible, and no artist is above criticism. I don't believe for a New York second that any artist strives for a cult following. This doesn't mean that VC needs to write vacuous pop trash, but Samantha did mention working with 3EB, a band with massive pop sensibilities. IMO "Semi-Charmed" was the best single of the 90's.
I think you can succeed with artistic as well as commercial success. Pop is NOT a bad word. It's when it's uninspired, contrived garbage that I have an issue. The soul has to remain, take the glitz back, you know?
No matter the viewpoint, I'm sure most of us agree that things cannot continue as they are.
Dan/NS
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She needs to terminate her contract with the Inc real soon. This album IS mainstream and it has potential. But they are handeling everything like shit.
Damn! New label or go indie (she's already in that niche anway)!
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I don't know, I think there are things we can do. I'm not sure I'm willing to do them right now though.
They have been asking us to call radio stations, but I didn't see people doing that so much. Where is a thread to get that campaign going? We should be posting about it. We can motivate each other if we see each other doing it. The problem is, where is VC? I mean, thanks for posting 5 months ago.
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calling the stations worked for me, i got it on an "official playlist"
check it out on todaysbestmix.com
all you SF bayers here need to listen to mix 106.5~
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well yeah, but how long did it take them to finally add it? we need something quick. and how a few people were saying that there is only so much that we can do.
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we willing, then? we can try one more time for "hands on me," which really has dropped tremendously.
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Even though H & T isnt exactly HUGE it still has me happy :D I love vanessa and her music...Doesnt matter if other people like it or not because when it coems down to it...its all about personal preference.
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calling the stations worked for me, i got it on an "official playlist"
check it out on todaysbestmix.com
all you SF bayers here need to listen to mix 106.5~
I'll be calling them tomorrow...just to add to the requests for it. Who else is calling into the radio station?
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Even though H & T isnt exactly HUGE it still has me happy :D I love vanessa and her music...Doesnt matter if other people like it or not because when it coems down to it...its all about personal preference.
i agree.. i just wish i could have more faith in feeling like that.
i mean surely vanessa isnt going to continue putting time and money into making these albums when they sell so badly?
i want to blame promo and the label but im just not so sure.
but what i do know is that surely vanessa could have done at least a few more tv and radio slots.
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well the radio and tv spots are mainly her promo team and or the recrod label. she can't just say I want to be on this show, she has to go through them first. Plus the inc is working on getting that new band of theirs um thunder katz? up and running so they are spending more time with them.
I think they are (they better) going to do something with V over the Summer. hopefully.
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yeah and didnt irv say he didnt expect the album to get big till after like a year or something?
so i dunno maybe he's got something planned for the summer/autumn.
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yeppers, I will be a fan of Vanessa's for a very long time. I am not going to give up on Heroes & Thieves until Vanessa says she does. Just like with Harmonium she announced on a post that it was done with and stuff. I just wish she would fill us in on stuff.
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^ i guess it would be nice to have some kind of word from her and what's going on and what she's up to.
maybe even just a blog.
december was a long time ago and we've been kind of left in the dark since then.
i cant see any other song off the album being released to any kind of success either.
i think the approach to this album was possibly wrong. I think it was released as if it was some kind of mainstream pop album and i think there could have been a higher degree of success with other forms of promotion maybe amongst more indepedant music circles or something :?
however i love heroes and theives and i think i will continue to be a fan of vanessa as long as she continues to throw records out .
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I want her to do well...
I don't really think she is a good person. I've mingled with urban democrats, and even though I met them with an open mind, they haven't made a good impression at all. So not only was she rude to me but her "type" doesn't impress me at all. But I've also been having a rough couple of years totally apart from that as well.
I've always liked what I perceive to be her mother's influence....or whatnot. I believe in her as an artist. I've never met or seen her apart from concerts.
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I'm gonna stick around... though I don't really think just love for the music is enough to keep a career going. Unfortunately she's not gonna be around forever, and the harder it gets to sell, the faster it makes for her to fade away more quickly. But I'll be here. I'm still waiting for Fools Like Me to be the next single, haha. Gotta love that song.
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Laura said:
i liked H&T when it first came out, but i have rarely listened to it lately or any of V's music for that matter. i could relate to BnN & Harmonium WAY more than this cd & the music just connected with me more. it sucks cuz i used to be a HUGE V fan & always listened to her music.
I agree. I LOVE what iluvvanessa said about the album breaking/mending/breaking his/her heart, but it doesn't do that for me. Obviously, most of her fans think the album is great, and I'm glad you enjoy it because V put a lot of work into it, but I don't like it at all. To me, this album was a big disappointment, and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. I think she is a very talented artist, but all the things that attracted me to her music before are missing from H&T. I am grateful of the influence that her music has had in my life, and, of course, I can listen to her older material whenever I like. I don't like ALL of her pre-H&T songs, but I adore many of them (most of which weren't album tracks!) I don't really consider myself a "fan" at the moment, but I'll see what her next album is like- I hope she releases one. I know she still has the ability to make what I consider a great album- she wrote some great songs that weren't chosen to be on the CD (such as All is Well & Best Behavior) and also I liked some album tracks (eg. The One) when I heard the live bootlegs, but didn't like the album versions. So when I look at it like that, I think this album was made in an attempt to please a certain audience, (which excludes me and other people who enjoy her "dark side") and also in a conscious effort to please the "mainstream" and casual listeners.
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To me, there's no "before and after Heroes & Thieves", that's just Vanessa. And at her best !
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Plus the inc is working on getting that new band of theirs um thunder katz? up and running so they are spending more time with them.
Thunder Katz?! That's a HORRID name. How could anyone possibly put a band with a name like Thunder Katz before Vanessa. You're right they better be doing something with her this summer because I can't see a band like that going very far.
However in the current music ndustry I could be proved completely wrong about my former statement.
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Thunder Katz!?....gag me with a spoon?
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oops its actually ThunderKatz
... like that makes it any better lmao.
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they opened for third eye blind a couple times. i think they're weird.
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No, no no.
I would never stop liking Vanessa Carlton.
Never.
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Well.....................All I can say is that nothing short of an all out nuclear holocaust would detour me from ever stop me from loving V...........I mean she was an absolute angel when I met her so.................I can't say anything bad
But honestly I think she is dealing with some serious emotional issues right now..................and I really feel for her..................she seems to always be in a constant battle with depression........and it seems to be getting the best of her as of late.........something which I really identify with personally.....................
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee142/MandyUnicorn/sadV.jpg)
I mean you can just see it in every area of her demeanor and rhetoric...............she seems to have lost every ounce of joy and motivation that keeps a person happy and motivated creatively...............and it's showing in spades..................but I have every bit of faith that she can weather the storm and come back as big as ever..................and I'm going to do everything in my power to help my Nessa..........and cheer her up........
:) :) :) :) :) :) :)
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And I've got just the thing..................... :D :D
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee142/MandyUnicorn/2.jpg)
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee142/MandyUnicorn/1-1.jpg)
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee142/MandyUnicorn/5.jpg)
And it's SUPER top secret.................. :) :D :) :D :)
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nice to see you posting again.
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I hope she doesn't stop making music, she's one of the best artists I've heard of in my opinion, I only find it sad that she doesn't get promoted that often, honestly, I mean, she's a lot better than a lot of stuff I hear on the radio everyday. I don't really get it, but then again, the same thing happens to me, I do a lot of good things but the only ones who get credit are the ones who don't do anything except slack off (I'm referring to boy scouts in this).
Also, who made that graphic version of Vanessa? It's really good.
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I honestly think she just doesn't like smiling for the paparazzi, I can understand that, it must be crazy standing at the ad wall with all the cameras yelling Vanessa over here, look over here. She does have joy, she was extremely [i guess you could even say] bubbly when i met her, she smiled, and was so sweet, it might be because i am a younger person, but its good that she does put on a smile. I honestly like that she isn't happy and overjoyed everytime she goes to a fashion show or premiere, it shows that she is real and doesn't pretend to be that annoying always happy person. thats just my thought.
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Well.....................All I can say is that nothing short of an all out nuclear holocaust would detour me from ever stop me from loving V...........I mean she was an absolute angel when I met her so.................I can't say anything bad
But honestly I think she is dealing with some serious emotional issues right now..................and I really feel for her..................she seems to always be in a constant battle with depression........and it seems to be getting the best of her as of late.........something which I really identify with personally.....................
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee142/MandyUnicorn/sadV.jpg)
I mean you can just see it in every area of her demeanor and rhetoric...............she seems to have lost every ounce of joy and motivation that keeps a person happy and motivated creatively...............and it's showing in spades..................but I have every bit of faith that she can weather the storm and come back as big as ever..................and I'm going to do everything in my power to help my Nessa..........and cheer her up........
:) :) :) :) :) :) :)
That's really interesting because the impression that I got from H&T is that she was trying to be somebody else. Maybe she wasn't at all, BUT that's just the feeling that *I* got from the album. I won't psychoanalyse, but I do find it interesting.
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Well.....................All I can say is that nothing short of an all out nuclear holocaust would detour me from ever stop me from loving V...........I mean she was an absolute angel when I met her so.................I can't say anything bad
But honestly I think she is dealing with some serious emotional issues right now..................and I really feel for her..................she seems to always be in a constant battle with depression........and it seems to be getting the best of her as of late.........something which I really identify with personally.....................
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee142/MandyUnicorn/sadV.jpg)
I mean you can just see it in every area of her demeanor and rhetoric...............she seems to have lost every ounce of joy and motivation that keeps a person happy and motivated creatively...............and it's showing in spades..................but I have every bit of faith that she can weather the storm and come back as big as ever..................and I'm going to do everything in my power to help my Nessa..........and cheer her up........
:) :) :) :) :) :) :)
That's really interesting because the impression that I got from H&T is that she was trying to be somebody else. Maybe she wasn't at all, BUT that's just the feeling that *I* got from the album. I won't psychoanalyse, but I do find it interesting.
Hmm... yeah
The first time I ever met VC she seemed pissed/depressed as all hell..hmmm..but maybe she was just having one of those days. lol
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People have always thought I looked pissed off when I wasn't at all. I think Vanessa might have the same problem.
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me too.
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I give off a "stay away from me" attitude, for some reason, most people try to act the way I do, or agree with me, weird. I'm relatively aloof and mysterious.
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I will be a fan after H&T if there is an "after H&T." I am so unimpressed with Vanessa's business savvy and her gullibility. Like Irv Gotti was going to be the catalyst for her comeback? Everyone was skeptical about it from the beginning and they should have been.
Making an album is like... it's like they had a baby together. Irv was all like, yeah, look at that hot young girl, she's different from my norm, I think I'll try her out, yeah everyone, look at my hot new girl. And Vanessa's all flattered by the attention because her ex cheated on her and she was feeling down, so she got carried away, then she's like, I'm pregnant, and Irv's like, yeah, we can make this work... you're still my hot new girl. Then she gains a bunch of weight and gets moody and can't go out and party anymore and Irv gets turned off and bored, then she actually has the baby and he's like oh fuck.. alright peace out.
You can't just pop that shit out and expect it to take care of itself. That's what they did. Or what Irv did. And at first, when Nolita dropped, everyone was like awww look at the baby!!!! and then no one fed it or bathed it and it died.
The man had too many previous commitments on his plate. Lots of other babies. Real ones, and then metaphorical ones, and now that V has lost her appeal to him he's just pimping her out to Ja Rule, etc (according to wiki) so she can guest on his upcoming remix album thing.
I know I sound like I'm smoking crack or something but think about it and it makes total sense.
And it is Vanessa's fault for picking him. Where the hell was Stevie Nicks? If anyone has music-business-savvy it's Stevie. Why wasn't she mentoring her when Vanessa was like YEAH MURDER INC GREAT IDEA. At this point she'd be more successful writing a self-help book for up-and-coming musicians: What Not To Do.
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I will be a fan after H&T if there is an "after H&T." I am so unimpressed with Vanessa's business savvy and her gullibility. Like Irv Gotti was going to be the catalyst for her comeback? Everyone was skeptical about it from the beginning and they should have been.
Making an album is like... it's like they had a baby together. Irv was all like, yeah, look at that hot young girl, she's different from my norm, I think I'll try her out, yeah everyone, look at my hot new girl. And Vanessa's all flattered by the attention because her ex cheated on her and she was feeling down, so she got carried away, then she's like, I'm pregnant, and Irv's like, yeah, we can make this work... you're still my hot new girl. Then she gains a bunch of weight and gets moody and can't go out and party anymore and Irv gets turned off and bored, then she actually has the baby and he's like oh fuck.. alright peace out.
You can't just pop that shit out and expect it to take care of itself. That's what they did. Or what Irv did. And at first, when Nolita dropped, everyone was like awww look at the baby!!!! and then no one fed it or bathed it and it died.
The man had too many previous commitments on his plate. Lots of other babies. Real ones, and then metaphorical ones, and now that V has lost her appeal to him he's just pimping her out to Ja Rule, etc (according to wiki) so she can guest on his upcoming remix album thing.
I know I sound like I'm smoking crack or something but think about it and it makes total sense.
And it is Vanessa's fault for picking him. Where the hell was Stevie Nicks? If anyone has music-business-savvy it's Stevie. Why wasn't she mentoring her when Vanessa was like YEAH MURDER INC GREAT IDEA. At this point she'd be more successful writing a self-help book for up-and-coming musicians: What Not To Do.
Never thought about it that way but you're right about a lot of things especially about Irv's other commitments.
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true he does kinda have to get Ashanti and Ja Rule back up there and a whole new act ThunderKatz I just think she should have looked into different labels before making such a quick decision.
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I agree I don't think a primarly rap/hip-hop label was the right desicion. They dont know how to promote her knid of music and its easier for Irv to make Ashanti or Ja Rule even bigger rather than start from scratch and work on Vanessa. even though she was on top at one point she was forgotten mostly she has to put herdelf back out there. I think he didnt realize the amount of work it would take to bring Vanessa's type of music to the top without TONS of promotion. An ipod commercial always does it though.
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I will be a fan after H&T if there is an "after H&T." I am so unimpressed with Vanessa's business savvy and her gullibility. Like Irv Gotti was going to be the catalyst for her comeback? Everyone was skeptical about it from the beginning and they should have been.
Making an album is like... it's like they had a baby together. Irv was all like, yeah, look at that hot young girl, she's different from my norm, I think I'll try her out, yeah everyone, look at my hot new girl. And Vanessa's all flattered by the attention because her ex cheated on her and she was feeling down, so she got carried away, then she's like, I'm pregnant, and Irv's like, yeah, we can make this work... you're still my hot new girl. Then she gains a bunch of weight and gets moody and can't go out and party anymore and Irv gets turned off and bored, then she actually has the baby and he's like oh fuck.. alright peace out.
You can't just pop that shit out and expect it to take care of itself. That's what they did. Or what Irv did. And at first, when Nolita dropped, everyone was like awww look at the baby!!!! and then no one fed it or bathed it and it died.
The man had too many previous commitments on his plate. Lots of other babies. Real ones, and then metaphorical ones, and now that V has lost her appeal to him he's just pimping her out to Ja Rule, etc (according to wiki) so she can guest on his upcoming remix album thing.
I know I sound like I'm smoking crack or something but think about it and it makes total sense.
And it is Vanessa's fault for picking him. Where the hell was Stevie Nicks? If anyone has music-business-savvy it's Stevie. Why wasn't she mentoring her when Vanessa was like YEAH MURDER INC GREAT IDEA. At this point she'd be more successful writing a self-help book for up-and-coming musicians: What Not To Do.
Wow! Natalie, I don't think you're smoking crack; I just think there are dozens of possibilities(yours, as well).
I think it's important to realize that the biz is run by a series of lawyers, bean counters, etc., so to say that Irv dropped the ball may or may not be the case. I've said it before: he could have been shot down by the money men above him. There is no ONE person that can wave his or her hand and make things happen all the time. Not Timbaland, not Simon Cowell, not John Shanks, noone.
Also, I'm not sure that Vanessa "picked" Irv. He may have been the only port in a storm. Also, consider that both A&M and THE INC. are Universal labels; the very same people could have deep-sixed the promotion.
I'm more curious as to her management and promoters. I'm still incredulous as to her lack of a real tour. I mean, we all know she's willing to hit the bricks, wtf happened?
As for other artists, well, someone like Stevie does have her own career to think about, as well as still being in Fleetwood Mac. I'm positive she made some phone calls to Warner Bros. Even if she didn't, having her open a whole bunch of dates was a great gesture, and I cannot find fault with that.
My impression is that VC is surrounded by a bunch of ineffectual morons who have promised her the Earth and delivered nothing, not even decent NYC airplay.
Dan/NS
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I actually hope she's writing new music already! Her cd came out, but I love her music and would never want it to stop.
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I still love her, and I really think H&T is her most listenable album so far. This is all my opinion, of course, and that's really all that matters. :razz:
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We don't know what has happened or what is going on. We'll have to wait and see.
Just make sure to go to her concerts.
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i'll always be :wink: :wink: :wink:
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i'll always be :wink: :wink: :wink:
Me too. Artists like Vanessa don't come around every day. This is nothing. Vanessa is just having a dry spell. I'm sure she'll figure something out. Cyndi Lauper fans waited 11 years for new material, but we stood by her and got it, We Enya fans have to wait years for albums, and Tracy Chapman hasn't released new material since 05, so I think waiting for another Vanessa hit will be easy. It will come. She is too good an artist to not have some sort of hit.
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WOW. I found this thread while conducting a search for Stevie Nicks in order to post in the right area about her album on Rollingstone.com. Obviously, this is a very old thread, but I wanted to put my 2 cents in.
A lot of you have been on this forum from the beginning and I have just joined. I was never a hardcore nessaholic until now. I never followed her every move or pined away for one. I was a fan, yes, I bought her albums when I realized they were out and liked them a lot. To me, Harmonium was the album I did not connect with until just recently actually. I think I was in a different place in my life than she was in her life when she wrote that album so I could not fully embrace her vision. With that said, I never gave up on it. I like it a lot more now because I've matured and can give it the consideration it deserves. H&T I connected with immediately, especially Home, Fools like Me, More than this. Maybe people who do not care for this album or connect with it can revisit it and see it differently when they are in a different point in their lives.
As for the discussion about her attitude towards fans, I have a few thoughts based on my own experiences. No, I'm not a musician, nor do I have any fans but I do have experience with insecurities. I am an extremely shy person (in real life; the computer gives me boldness). When I am in public situations, and back when I was in school I RARELY talk (though I am getting better as I get older). I have since learned to at least put a smile on my face, but I didn't used to and people thought I was a bitch! I'm only quite because I fear rejection, I'm afraid of sounding stupid, I hate my nasal voice, and I am ALWAYS nervous that people will not like me. Now, you might be thinking, what does this have to do with Vanessa?? People love her, they tell her they love her and her music! Depression and insecurities run very deep and you can't just snap your fingers to make them go away. If you have a bad day or are feeling particularly down on yourself, even if you just played a set in front of fans, nothing matters but that deep well of darkness. How I feel on the inside is often reflected on how I treat people, even the ones that love me (especially the ones that love me). I am only guessing that Vanessa has some sort of depression based on her music mainly (and why I connect so deeply to it and her). With the new information we have about her being bisexual it ALL makes sense to me. She was most likely denying to everyone and to herself that she is bisexual. Denying a part of yourself, hating a part of yourself that you cannot change, thinking others won't like you if they know, and not feeling worth anything. Combine this all with the fact that she is in the public eye being judged, she has put her soul to record and people are not liking it, and it's not successful...that is just a recipe for depression. So she might not feel like talking to people because of what is going on inside of her. She also seems very introspective and thoughtful, if not old fashioned and I think this is why she doesn't necessarily use technology to her advantage and stay in touch with her fans as others do. She's not the type to make a tweet every time she goes to the bathroom. I mean, wouldn't you rather have these clever, witty, thoughtful tweets that keep us guessing and in discussion (and to look up who the heck Jack K is and then maybe expand our own minds by reading him as well?) than to know every move she makes? I don't think she'd be the V we love if she were to do that.
I've made a pretty big departure from what the thread originally asked, but I felt I needed to address the issues brought up about her 'bitchiness' because ...well you know, I just had a paragraph about it. But to answer the original question: hands down, absolutely, no questions or qualms about it. I will be a fan after H&T (in fact I still am and actually MORE of fan). Not only that, I will continue to be her fan even if she does switch over to just composing or writing for other people or even if she ventured into techno pop. I may not listen to that album as much, but I would still buy it and follow her. NESSAholic for life!
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just an update on H&T's sales: currently stands at 75,000 in the U.S. now.
http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/sales/sales_ur.cgi?062111
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I'm actually a fan BECAUSE OF Heroes and Thieves. I really didn't like most of her older stuff. I don't even own Harmonium. But there was something about H&T that was really special - it's difficult for me to articulate. It just really works for me. That's why when Carousel came out and it sounded so different, I was like "...eep." But I actually really like that song, and from what I've heard of ROTR so far, I'm going to like much of it as well.
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I'm actually a fan BECAUSE OF Heroes and Thieves. I really didn't like most of her older stuff. I don't even own Harmonium. But there was something about H&T that was really special - it's difficult for me to articulate. It just really works for me. That's why when Carousel came out and it sounded so different, I was like "...eep." But I actually really like that song, and from what I've heard of ROTR so far, I'm going to like much of it as well.
I think that every album is different. It pretty much has to be. If an artist kept putting out the same stuff, it would get old. If you haven't tried out the other two albums, I'd give them a fair shot. When Harmonium came out I didn't immediately connect with it. Not to say it was bad, because it's not. I still listened to it, but it wasn't one that I would always go back to. Now however, I have a different appreciation for it. I appreciate each album for what it is on it's own and also the progression and growth the collection shows. It was only natural that we'd get to this point of ROTR where it is soo different from what has come before, but it's more of who she is.
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I'm actually a fan BECAUSE OF Heroes and Thieves. I really didn't like most of her older stuff. I don't even own Harmonium. But there was something about H&T that was really special - it's difficult for me to articulate. It just really works for me. That's why when Carousel came out and it sounded so different, I was like "...eep." But I actually really like that song, and from what I've heard of ROTR so far, I'm going to like much of it as well.
I think that every album is different. It pretty much has to be. If an artist kept putting out the same stuff, it would get old. If you haven't tried out the other two albums, I'd give them a fair shot. When Harmonium came out I didn't immediately connect with it. Not to say it was bad, because it's not. I still listened to it, but it wasn't one that I would always go back to. Now however, I have a different appreciation for it. I appreciate each album for what it is on it's own and also the progression and growth the collection shows. It was only natural that we'd get to this point of ROTR where it is soo different from what has come before, but it's more of who she is.
You have a really good point, all of her albums are way different from one another. I actually own Be Not Nobody - I don't HATE it but I'm just not really drawn to it, I mean if it wasn't for Heroes and Thieves I wouldn't be on this site, you know what I mean? Like, I respected BNN as a solid album, but H&T I just really loved and that's what made me a true fan.
Regarding Harmonium in particular - I really like music that has catchy choruses, like music that gets stuck in my head very easily (I've been walking around with "Dear California" in my head ALL day, so I know I'm going to love that song), and there isn't much in Harmonium that does that for me, except "White Houses" and "Who's to Say."
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I'm actually a fan BECAUSE OF Heroes and Thieves. I really didn't like most of her older stuff. I don't even own Harmonium. But there was something about H&T that was really special - it's difficult for me to articulate. It just really works for me. That's why when Carousel came out and it sounded so different, I was like "...eep." But I actually really like that song, and from what I've heard of ROTR so far, I'm going to like much of it as well.
I think that every album is different. It pretty much has to be. If an artist kept putting out the same stuff, it would get old. If you haven't tried out the other two albums, I'd give them a fair shot. When Harmonium came out I didn't immediately connect with it. Not to say it was bad, because it's not. I still listened to it, but it wasn't one that I would always go back to. Now however, I have a different appreciation for it. I appreciate each album for what it is on it's own and also the progression and growth the collection shows. It was only natural that we'd get to this point of ROTR where it is soo different from what has come before, but it's more of who she is.
You have a really good point, all of her albums are way different from one another. I actually own Be Not Nobody - I don't HATE it but I'm just not really drawn to it, I mean if it wasn't for Heroes and Thieves I wouldn't be on this site, you know what I mean? Like, I respected BNN as a solid album, but H&T I just really loved and that's what made me a true fan.
Regarding Harmonium in particular - I really like music that has catchy choruses, like music that gets stuck in my head very easily (I've been walking around with "Dear California" in my head ALL day, so I know I'm going to love that song), and there isn't much in Harmonium that does that for me, except "White Houses" and "Who's to Say."
wow, really?? Not Who's to Say? I'm shocked! lol. I love the message it sends and I sort of connect to it because my mother didn't really care for my now husband when we first started dating because he was older. We've been together eight years and only in the past year or two has she really opened up to him. My aunt stopped short of saying don't get married, but pretty much danced her way around it. on that album, I don't connect with San Fransisco very well, but it's catchy. anyway, off topic, sorry!
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I think Alexander is saying those are the only songs he does connect with. :D
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ha, lol! thanks.
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I think Alexander is saying those are the only songs he does connect with. :D
Baha, you got to it first XD But yeah, "Who's to Say" is one of the only songs on Harmonium I do really enjoy. I listened to the entire album last night, and that pretty much confirmed it for me lol The point being, for me, "Will you still be a fan after H&T" isn't even a question, since I wasn't really that much of a fan before (although, to be fair, I didn't really take much notice to her until I saw Nolita Fairytale on the front page of iTunes and was like "whoa, it's the Thousand Miles girl!")
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HAha. looking at this thread almost four years after it was made. :)
Well, I , like one who posted above me, was made a fan by H&T. I mean, everyone knew ATM, but that was just a one hit wonder. But I recognized her name and decided to check this album out of the library. The first time I heard Hands on Me, I had it on replay, both on my CD player and in my head. The whole album began to grow on me, and I began listening to the album chronically. I downloaded her other albums. Harmonium I enjoyed for a while, and BNN was something interesting. But, though both albums were great, H&T was exceptional, and still is, for me. That album is special.
Anyway, my point is that HEroes and Thieves is the album that made me a big fan, and always will be. I am so excited to hear ROTR for the first time, and I hope I connect with this album as much or more than I did with H&T.
Peace :)
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Each album Vanessa comes out with is so distinct in style and vibe. Because of this, so many of different musical tastes are introduced to her amazing songwriting. An album being different is not a problem--just look how many fans were introduced by H&T :D
I became a fan through BNN. Harmonium was very different, H&T was even more so, and we already know how different Rabbits on the Run will be. However, through understanding and appreciating songs that were automatically my 'taste', I understood and appreciated her further writing. I believe I will always be a fan if she keeps writing good music; despite how different an album sounds, I think I'll always be able to figure it out and enjoy it.
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Each album Vanessa comes out with is so distinct in style and vibe. Because of this, so many of different musical tastes are introduced to her amazing songwriting. An album being different is not a problem--just look how many fans were introduced by H&T :D
I became a fan through BNN. Harmonium was very different, H&T was even more so, and we already know how different Rabbits on the Run will be. However, through understanding and appreciating songs that were automatically my 'taste', I understood and appreciated her further writing. I believe I will always be a fan if she keeps writing good music; despite how different an album sounds, I think I'll always be able to figure it out and enjoy it.
very well said! I agree.