NESSAholics.com
Vanessa Carlton => General Vanessa Carlton Discussion => Topic started by: NoelleNC on August 19, 2005, 08:14:27 pm
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I was just wondering if you guys predict she'll have a big comeback song or if she will always just have a small tight knit fan base like she has now and remain just popular enough to make small albums............ I'm undecided.
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Vanessa got big because ATM appealed to everyone. It was catchy as hell. While I think her music has gotten better, it doesn't have the mass appeal it once had.
I don't think she'll be as big as she was. I think, however, there is room for her fanbase to grow some more.
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She has the talent to make a comeback.. but her record company has little faith in her.
I'd say she won't make a comeback, unless she is able to convince her record company to keep her around...
Amanda
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I don't understand all this cos harmonium was perfection and I don't get how... just... grr!
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I think no one can predict the future for artists and especially in the music industry.
We'll just have to wait and see what happens! (of course, I want her to be successful again!)
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I don't understand all this cos harmonium was perfection and I don't get how... just... grr!
I know. Harmonium rocked. But not everyone thinks the same thing, and not everyone knew she even had a 2nd album out!
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I showed my friends the new songs (they all don't like her that much) and afterwards they were all sitting behind there desks singing the melody of put your hands on me. If a song of her will have chances to give her THE comback i think put your hands on me would it be. The melody is realy going into every ear
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I think she'll make the same music. ATM is just a commercial song -in my opinion-, and it was succeeded to start, because it leads you to continuing being her fan. Now she's got the audience she'll be able to make her own music, but in her case it didn't work -Or at least it is not obvious, was Harmonium released in Europe? If she was more succesful than before, twould be released.
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I doubt she'll ever be as famous as she was, but I do think the new album wil be more popular then Harmonium. Harmonium's amazing, but it's dark and doesn't appeal to the mass, while the new songs are kind of a mix between BNN and Harmonium, and i think they'll do very well.
I just hope the record company's going to give the new album the attention, I know it will deserve :)
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in the two years she made Harmonium she don't let someone know that shes existing but this time every one sees her on cribs and punked (even in germany) and we all remember her as the girl driving through new york with her piano and waiting for new stuff to hear. Now we know shes existing and working.
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I thought she was recording this next album w/ a different label? Did I misunderstand?
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Yeah, I totally thought she was with another label. I hope she is ....... Hopefully she'll get a lot more freedom.
*sigh* I seriously don't understand how nobody backed Harmonium!
I listen to many styles of music and many different artists, and I can honestly say that Harmonium is in my top 3 fav albums ever :!:
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Personally I feel that it has alot to do with promotion, Harmonium was barely promoted, but if we start now, we can definately give her a larger chance of a comeback-a song like ATM is hard to live down, but any possibility is possible right now, hopefully she either gets a better record comapany-or Interscope realizes her full potentially. I pulling for a new co. though...Put Your Hands on Me would be a good single though, it's catchy, I think ATM's signature hook was the being part of it, that's what made it so popular...I even went to Hermosillo, Mexico, and they new the hook....funny...then again, I don't think Vanessa has reached such a low in her career that I she becomes popular again, it will be a "comeback" it's not like she is gone from the face of the Earth, alot people still know of her.
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I think she'll remain as is. I mean I want her to make a comeback just as much as you guys but I don't think she'll have another song like ATM. It's hard to make a good comeback these days, take it from a fan of another group that is trying to make one. I just don't think she will.. but hey, you never know!
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MTV is way too busy playing rap these days. They can't trouble themselves enough to give airtime to people who actually have talent.
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That's sad but true................... I'm from Canada and Muchmusic always played VC, and Muchmoremusic (the more adult station) played White Houses and A Thousand Miles almost everyday on the MMMtop10.com when they were on the voting list.
...................That second single woulda helped a bunch...................
..............................ohwell, all we can do is wait.............................
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Ignore this...
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MTV is way too busy playing rap these days. They can't trouble themselves enough to give airtime to people who actually have talent.
Exactly.
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The last time I watched any sort of MTV channel was when Vanessa was on MTV2 for Damage Control. It's just too horrid these days.
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I really hope she does come back because I truly enjoy her music and I think the thing is the music industry. Sometimes, they just don't know a good thing when it's there. Hey, the song "Barons Of Suburbia" by Tori Amos is about this...seriously, it is.
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She's not going to come back. Its absolute wishful thinking if you think she is. Maybe Harmonium would've been her chance but they stuffed that up good and proper. The music industry is done with people like her- they want to make money on something else. Thats not to say she won't make great music on a smaller scale and without the hassle of record industry people on her back.
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who knows. :p
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She's not going to come back. Its absolute wishful thinking if you think she is.
Wow, you're sure showing a lot of support Rosie...
What is Vanessa gonna think when she reads something like that?
Of course, no one knows what's gonna happen with her career, I agree, but still, we're here to support her no matter what!
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The music industry is done with people like her- they want to make money on something else. Thats not to say she won't make great music on a smaller scale and without the hassle of record industry people on her back.
The music biz doesn't give a rat's ass who is making money for them(witness what is out there). Right now, rap and generic R&B are what sell, so in their traditional sense, the record companies will beat it to death. And they have.
The only thing record companies can do that someone cannot by themselves is distribute a physical CD globally(and give radio people $ and drugs and sexual favors). You don't need a record company to make an album. In fact, you're better off doing it yourself.
Vanessa works constantly. That is a strength. She still believes in what she is doing and can deliver consistently. That is a large part of the battle.
The rest of the battle is the record company getting out there and pushing the CD. If not, she may be better off releasing CD's independently. There is no shortage of independent artists that were once on a major label, and there is no shame involved in that.
I don't care if Vanessa is on A&M, S&M, or any other bunch of weasels masquerading as a record company. I'll bet she sleeps damn well at night knowing that she is not a sell-out.
Dan/NS
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The music industry is done with people like her- they want to make money on something else. Thats not to say she won't make great music on a smaller scale and without the hassle of record industry people on her back.
The music biz doesn't give a rat's ass who is making money for them(witness what is out there). Right now, rap and generic R&B are what sell, so in their traditional sense, the record companies will beat it to death. And they have.
The only thing record companies can do that someone cannot by themselves is distribute a physical CD globally(and give radio people $ and drugs and sexual favors). You don't need a record company to make an album. In fact, you're better off doing it yourself.
Vanessa works constantly. That is a strength. She still believes in what she is doing and can deliver consistently. That is a large part of the battle.
The rest of the battle is the record company getting out there and pushing the CD. If not, she may be better off releasing CD's independently. There is no shortage of independent artists that were once on a major label, and there is no shame involved in that.
I don't care if Vanessa is on A&M, S&M, or any other bunch of weasels masquerading as a record company. I'll bet she sleeps damn well at night knowing that she is not a sell-out.
Dan/NS
My thoughts exactly. She is doing the right thing by being true to herself and I think that she is happy right now where she is. I mean, I'm sure she'd enjoy being more succesful, but the "musicians" that are succesful are sell-outs and I'd don't think Vanessa would ever want to be like them. In fact, I think people like the Simpson family (no offence to their fans) are the very epitome of everything Vanessa strives not to be. For example, a Vanessa and Stephan reality show would probably boost her career, but she'd never sell herself out like that.
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I don't care if Vanessa is on A&M, S&M, or any other bunch of weasels masquerading as a record company.
S&M, interesting label... :lol:
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I don't care if Vanessa is on A&M, S&M, or any other bunch of weasels masquerading as a record company.
S&M, interesting label... :lol:
My thoughts exactly. Truth is, they're a real company, but I can't find their website.
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S&M... Symphony and Metallica (check out the dvd/cd, it's astounding...)
Back to the topic, I think this tour with Stevie Nicks will do a lot for her career. This may be what she needs to make a comeback, because lots of people who may not have known of her before (apart from A Thousand Miles) will now pay attention to her, and seek out her music, and hopefully then the record company will get its ass in gear and promote Vanessa
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i think with the right promotion, she could make a comeback
just look at Mariah Carey...
and we KNOW these new nessa songs are amazing. so all it needs is the right promo
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Do we know which label she's with now? Is it indie? Sorry if I missed this somewhere... :)
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Do we know which label she's with now? Is it indie?
Yeah, I'm wondering too...
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Do we know which label she's with now? Is it indie?
Yeah, I'm wondering too...
Nobody knows anything concrete. The only evidence that MAYBE she has not switched from an Interscope record label is that the O-board is still up.
Dan/NS
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If she got completely released from Interscope, that news would have been big enough for someone here to have come across an article somewhere. That being said, I've got to assume she just got moved from A&M to a different subsidary of Interscope that is willing to put more faith and promotional focus on her music.
I know this is impossible because of their contracts with their current labels, but I'd love to see Stephan and Vanessa create their own label so that Vanessa and TEB would have absolute creative freedom and wouldn't have to worry about record execs mismanaging them or forcing them to do stuff they don't want to.
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I am hoping that she had the smarts to move up from A&M records. I know she can rise to the top if she has a label that believes in her talents. A&M isn't really concerned about musicans rising up and improving themselves. Their main concern is the money. I'm sorry that MTV makes all the record companies greedy for more money, but it shouldn't be about how many records you can sell, its should be all about the way your music impacts lives.
I don't know if I ever heard of an artist who has so many loving supportive fans like Vanessa does. She deserves all the fame and glory that should be coming to her, but we all know that she will be satisfied just by touching one of our lives....
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Well, I just looked on the A&M website and it says she is still on A&M, but she is not on Interscope...are they the same thing?
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Yeah... I think there are elements for V coming back... I hope this new album's huge and V has been around in the media more (cribs, extreme home edition) so I think she's got a great shot if her album is promoted her music will do the rest :)
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I think Vanessa will become a cult artist, one of those people that may not be at the top of the charts but still are good enough to have a strong fan base that supports them, and I think that kind of musicians are much more respectable than most of the very commercially successful ones.
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If she's promoted well, she'll sell well.
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wishful thinking... Seriously vanessa carlton's songs are becoming too bland. From a musical perspective that is what i think. I've heard her new songs and they sound very much like love pop songs -- not interesting at all. What people look for in pop is #1) catchy hook and #2) a great production.
You have no idea how easy it is to tell between an indie label record and a major label one due to the production. Production IS the whole basis of what makes pop music appealing... and I hope that Nessa can seriously consider that aspect in her songs---> ATM was well produced AND catchy ...White houses was well produced but a bit more bland.
If vanessa is to come back in any way, she's got to learn to write better "musically". A Fine pop song is extremely hard to write even though it can be simple. People assume that since vanessa is a classical pianist she's well trained in the "music" area. Actually, pop and art music are two different things and serve two different functions...If vanessa wants to come back, she's gotta seriously consider how she's going to put herself out the world and really improve on her songwriting skills.
I'm not going to comment on the lyrics, because I'm only a musician. I'm not trying to put Vanessa down in any way, but it is just my opinion.
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^^^ well we haven't even heard the final productions of her new stuff. and I heard a snippet of the "this time" production and it sounded fantastic to me. These songs ARE catchy. I've played PYHOM for some friends who aren't really fans at all, and they love the song, even when it's just piano. So I don't really get your point. There are so many songs that are huge successes without very much production at all. John Legend's "ordinary people"... isn't it just him and his piano? and John Mayer's "daughters" is mostly just guitar, if I remember correctly. I don't understand what's so bland about v's songs, they seem catchy and poignant, simple, and profound. I'm thinking a lot of success will come of this next album.
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^^^ well we haven't even heard the final productions of her new stuff. and I heard a snippet of the "this time" production and it sounded fantastic to me. These songs ARE catchy. I've played PYHOM for some friends who aren't really fans at all, and they love the song, even when it's just piano. So I don't really get your point. There are so many songs that are huge successes without very much production at all. John Legend's "ordinary people"... isn't it just him and his piano? and John Mayer's "daughters" is mostly just guitar, if I remember correctly. I don't understand what's so bland about v's songs, they seem catchy and poignant, simple, and profound. I'm thinking a lot of success will come of this next album.
:D :D :D My thoughts exactly :D :D :D
V is a smart musician she told us that people would know her next album and I think she meant it.... the new songs are killer and really catchy and who knows what else she has in store for us 8)
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I heard a snippet of the "this time" production and it sounded fantastic to me.
The yelps of a burning puppy are more pleasing to the ear than the version of "This Time" that you're referring to. Linda Perry ruined that song and I'm guessing there are some other songs on the upcoming album that will suck because of her.
Harmonium was fantastic, and if that style of music doesn't sell well then so be it. I'd rather Vanessa make good music and have a modest fan base than make mind numbingly bad, bland, watered-down, radio bubble-gum, teeny-bopper crap like Perry makes her music sound and be super-duper popular.
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I heard a snippet of the "this time" production and it sounded fantastic to me.
The yelps of a burning puppy are more pleasing to the ear than the version of "This Time" that you're referring to.
haha! damn. well it is what it is, and I can appreciate a shift in style. No matter how v's music is produced, I'll always know that it's fantastic writing. Honestly, production is only half of it... at least for me, obviously not for you.
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I think she'll stay as is. Even though she has continued to make songs to her established high standard, she's not in the right type of music to be as popular as she was, currently all that seems to be popular is mediocre samey Indie, R&B, rap, Krunk (whatever the hell that is) and pretty much any 'artist' who's willing to strip down to their underwear, dispense with artistic integrity/individuality, dance suggestively and only sing songs with blunt sexual overtones. Unfortunately talented people like Vanessa just aren't being given the chance, but I'd rather her stay on track and continue to produce good songs rather than to be extremely popular at the expense of quality. I think Aimee Mann is similarly less successful than she should be, but is still going strong in terms of her musical output (if anyone hasn't listened to her I seriously reccommend doing so).
Still, the music scene can, and hopefully will, change really quickly so who knows. Fingers crossed for the third album, and even if nobody else is listening to her I always will :D
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I've always believed in VC's musical artistic talent. There is just something there we all know exists in a big way. Her selling records depends on alot of things other than that. Alot of talented people fall by the wayside because of other reasons. Do I think she will make it? Yes I do. I don't know anything, but I would be 'guessing' that she has made an impression on alot of people, made important connections in the industry, for instance, Stephen Jenkins and Stevie Nicks. At least I hope so. I think vanessa will be back.
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what are all of you guys talking about? this mumbo jumbo about how success only comes nowadays from scantily clad hoes just isn't making sense. Yes, some of the musically inept, yet painfully big-breasted artists are experiencing large volumes of sales. But honestly, John Mayer's new album Continuum is number one on iTunes. The Fray's "how to save a life" is the number 1 song, followed by Snow Patrol's "chasing cars." The theory of vanessa's music just not being "in style" is off. She's not famous at the moment because she had a sophomore slump... for whatever the reason--- bad promotion probably the biggest of them. You can't say for sure, but it seems pretty clear that she's coming back strong, and you can't give up on her and say that her music just isn't what people want. It's definitely what people want, but just haven't had a chance to hear.
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Who is the most successful credible female artist out right now...& how how do her numbers compare to those guys? Just wondering.
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it's all about luck... if she get's lucky i see no reason why nessa can't make a comeback. Sadly, I know that she won't get anywhere with her mere abilities alone...Even though i'm a fan, I know there are thousands more talented artists out there.
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I'm sick of all this "comeback" talk. Comeback from what? Harmonium was fantastic, we can all agree on that. So is popularity all we're talking about here?
Some of you are complaining about what's "popular" right now...do we really want Vanessa to be clumped with all that?
Furthermore, if Vanessa does become highly lucrative again, there is going to be tons of pressure on her to conform to whatever sound is the flavor of the month and to promote to whoever is causing the spike in her sales (likely to be teeny-boppers) and I don't think any of us want that. And, in order for Vanessa to get this popular, it takes more than better promotion for a label (especially for a female artist). If she's to hit it super-big, she's going to have to whore herself to the business and I don't see her doing that either.
I'm with some of the other people who have posted in this thread basically saying that Vanessa is an artist, not a product. I'm sure she's more than willing to sacrifice some money and prestige to maintain her artistic integrity.
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I'm sick of all this "comeback" talk. Comeback from what? Harmonium was fantastic, we can all agree on that. So is popularity all we're talking about here?
Some of you are complaining about what's "popular" right now...do we really want Vanessa to be clumped with all that?
Furthermore, if Vanessa does become highly lucrative again, there is going to be tons of pressure on her to conform to whatever sound is the flavor of the month and to promote to whoever is causing the spike in her sales (likely to be teeny-boppers) and I don't think any of us want that. And, in order for Vanessa to get this popular, it takes more than better promotion for a label (especially for a female artist). If she's to hit it super-big, she's going to have to whore herself to the business and I don't see her doing that either.
I'm with some of the other people who have posted in this thread basically saying that Vanessa is an artist, not a product. I'm sure she's more than willing to sacrifice some money and prestige to maintain her artistic integrity.
You make some good points and I agree with you on most of them. I just want V (hahah...see other topic) to get more recognition for her music... I still think that an artist can maintain their integrity while topping the charts. I don't want Nessa to whore her self to the music industry... maybe just win a grammy :roll:
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I'm sick of all this "comeback" talk. Comeback from what? Harmonium was fantastic, we can all agree on that. So is popularity all we're talking about here?
Some of you are complaining about what's "popular" right now...do we really want Vanessa to be clumped with all that?
Furthermore, if Vanessa does become highly lucrative again, there is going to be tons of pressure on her to conform to whatever sound is the flavor of the month and to promote to whoever is causing the spike in her sales (likely to be teeny-boppers) and I don't think any of us want that. And, in order for Vanessa to get this popular, it takes more than better promotion for a label (especially for a female artist). If she's to hit it super-big, she's going to have to whore herself to the business and I don't see her doing that either.
I'm with some of the other people who have posted in this thread basically saying that Vanessa is an artist, not a product. I'm sure she's more than willing to sacrifice some money and prestige to maintain her artistic integrity.
You make some good points and I agree with you on most of them. I just want V (hahah...see other topic) to get more recognition for her music... I still think that an artist can maintain their integrity while topping the charts. I don't want Nessa to whore her self to the music industry... maybe just win a grammy :roll:
I agree. You can be credible AND successful. It is just kinda rare right now.
Personally I think Vanessa's fan base has already been reached. She had a HUGE #1 single that EVERYBODY has heard. The only way it's going to get bigger is for her to completely change & "sell out" in order to appeal to a wider audience. And we've already heard a lot of the new songs - she definitely hasn't changed her style.
I dunno. It's so hard for me to express my opinions via message board. lol
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I think that a lot of people liked ATM and perhaps didn't have a clue that she even made a second album. I wouldn't have known about White Houses if I had not already been a fan searching the internet for news about Vanessa. (Wasn't released here). So maybe those one-time ATM fans might become real fans if they heard new stuff, or she might reach new fans who might not have even liked ATM. That will only be if they hear about it though!
In a perfect world, Harmonium would have been "popular", and won awards and all that. The most important thing for us though, is that it was brilliant musically. The most important thing for a record company is that a product (ie CD) sells... which depends a lot on promotion. SO, they really dug their own grave. I can understand if she wants her music to be "popular", and I think it should be. Changing to suit the trends is not worth it though, in my opinion. I guess we will find out if she has next "Spring".
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I think that a lot of people liked ATM and perhaps didn't have a clue that she even made a second album.
Sadly, it's not perhaps but it's sure that no one knows here (in Europe) that she actually released a second album.
If it wasn't for me, no one at work had any idea she was still making music. :evil:
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Like I said,
I wouldn't have known about White Houses if I had not already been a fan searching the internet for news about Vanessa. (Wasn't released here)
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Who is the most successful credible female artist out right now...& how how do her numbers compare to those guys? Just wondering.
good point. but really, I think good music sells. I think Corrine-Bailey ray's doin okay, and Amy Lee, and Ana Nalick... but I see your point.
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actually, you'll be surprised to know the top ten earnings from celebrities comes from alicia keys and Norah Jones according to a time article i read last year. They truly have their unique style and great song writing ability and they deserve that fame. They definitely do not "whore" themselves to the world. It's surprising to know that only these two artists are on the same list with oprah... not christina aguilera or britney. search up top 10 celebrities or something on time's website and you should find the article.
we always have a misconception that pop= selling out= bad= sex appeal.
To some degree, this is true, but pop/ mainstream also encompasses a thousand variety of styles.. it's not just a homogenous mixture of beyonce, britney, and christina aguilera. Being popular means selling music and doesn't alwys mean that one is trading artistic integrity for money.. some people choose to be the way they want to be.
Alicia and Norah deserve their fame, because they were lucky in the first place and also (i'm not afraid to say this) because they are more talented, educated, and innovative songwriters than vanessa carlton.
Nessa needs to develop her own unique sense of songwriting within a pop context... You can't argue that it's impossible in pop... just look at tori amos.
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Alicia and Norah deserve their fame, because they were lucky in the first place and also (i'm not afraid to say this) because they are more talented, educated, and innovative songwriters than vanessa carlton.
Nessa needs to develop her own unique sense of songwriting within a pop context... You can't argue that it's impossible in pop... just look at tori amos.
That is a matter of opinion. I think that Vanessa is extremely talented, innovative (who else sings about Vampire and Unicorn wars? Lol) and as far as being educated, she has learnt music since she was two! I'm not trying to argue that Alicia and Norah are not talented (they are), but I really don't like and don't connect with their music. In your posts you have a lot to say about what you think is "not good" about Vanessa, so I have to ask:
Why are you here?
I repect that you have your own opinion, and whilst I disagree with it, I am not here to argue. I am just confused as to why you are on the Nessaholics board if you don't even have anything good to say about this artist?
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Nora & Alicia bore the hell outta me. Sure, they're talented. But I don't care.
I definitely think Vanessa is innovative! She has a style all her own. There's my 2 cents.
(Why am I always sticking up for Vanessa Carlton on a Vanessa Carlton forum?!?!)
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I didn't say it was the only way for a female artist to succeed but looking at singers like Nelly Furtado, Jessica Simpson, Christina Aguilera, Britney Spears, Christina Milian and countless others, I don't think it can be denied that in lieu of talent many 'muscians' rather succesfully use sexuality to get ahead. Amy Lee is obviously an exception to this, but I think even she was made to compromise during Fallen's production, which may be why Evanescence achieved such phenomenal success, don't get me wrong I am a huge Evanescence fan and think they deserve to do extremely well (due to the sheer amount of talent the band and especially Lee have) but I don't think they are necessarily so mainstream.
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Nora & Alicia bore the hell outta me. Sure, they're talented. But I don't care.
I definitely think Vanessa is innovative! She has a style all her own. There's my 2 cents.
(Why am I always sticking up for Vanessa Carlton on a Vanessa Carlton forum?!?!)
hahaha...I agree.....
also I actually like Christina Aguilera because although she does have a very sexual image she still has an amazing vocal talent unlike very many musical artists on todays charts 8)
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Of course there's a lot of room for improvement in Vanessa's music but she definitely is innovative, there are not many pop musicians that use classical piano melodies on their songs and that's what makes her unique in the pop scene.
I do like Norah Jones and Alicia Keys but I still like Vanessa better.
Finally, I think is unfair to still put Christina Aguilera in the same place as Jessica Simpson, Britney Spears and all the other ones, ok they all started as the same thing but Christina has innovated and evolved in every album, her new album sounds nothing like the hip-hop oriented pop music that we are so used to hear now, and if you listen to her songs you will see that many of them are about self-acceptation and self-esteem and that's a good thing, not to mention her vocal skills.
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(Why am I always sticking up for Vanessa Carlton on a Vanessa Carlton forum?!?!)
Haha it's funny isn't it?
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(Why am I always sticking up for Vanessa Carlton on a Vanessa Carlton forum?!?!)
Haha it's funny isn't it?
it's sad, really. :roll:
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(Why am I always sticking up for Vanessa Carlton on a Vanessa Carlton forum?!?!)
Haha it's funny isn't it?
it's sad, really. :roll:
...hence the sarcasm
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^^^ i guess that'd be double then.