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Other Topics => Polls => Topic started by: Katia's Lover on June 22, 2003, 10:41:57 am
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Ah, gotta love political debate.
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Don't have a shit clue what your talking about. But I have a feeling this is going to stir up some kind of debate here, and make this a long ass thread. (I've seen it happen before)
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It shouldn't. Unless people start acting immature and start bashing people (won't be me).
Roe v. Wade was the 1971 Supreme Court decision that allowed a woman to have an abortion during the first two trimesters of the pregnancy. Justice Blackman gave the majority opinion, and current Chief Justice William Rehnquist was in the dissent.
I'm just wondering. I'm writing a book (just for the hell of it basically) on my views of not only the moral issue but also of the constitutional basis of the decision and (for those who know what I'm talking about) how Planned Parenthood v. Casey is often overlooked as one of the most influential rulings in today's political climate.
Ok, I'm rambling.
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and i ask myself what the "fuck" is this shit? i don't know what you are talking about...but i still voted :D :D :D :D :D
*smiles*
RAMBLE!
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hmmmm this was just on my USHAG Regents (for those of you non-new yorkers: A Regents is a standardized New York State test that is given for some classes, such as USHAG, or US History And Government)
i voted 'yup' which i'm assuming is the choice for saying that abortion should be legal - i'm a little loopy at the moment so it's hard for me to make sense of anything at the moment
abortion is something that should be a personal choice, whether someone else agrees with it or not. - just my belief.
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Hmm.. Who?
*Yawns*
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I can't believe you people seriously haven't heard of Roe v. Wade. If you ever get pregnant and don't want it (for the record, I am neither condoning nor not condoning that action) will know it.
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I can't believe you people seriously haven't heard of Roe v. Wade. If you ever get pregnant and don't want it (for the record, I am neither condoning nor not condoning that action) will know it.
I knew it when you refreshed my memory, but when we learned court cases I had 30 of them all at once, It's hard to remember all of that...I even forgot them on the test.
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IMO a lot of Poly Sci professors/teachers make you learn TOO much. i.e. they make you memorize 30 court cases, which only about 1/2 are really necessary. If I do become a Poly Sci professor one day, there are only a few that I think you should know.
Roe v. Wade
Plessy v. Furgeson
BOE v. Brown
Planned Parenthood v. Casey
Griswold v. Connecticut
etc. etc.
I'm a big USSC person, so a lot of my research and my dictation is/will be about the USSC. Plus, if I do teach Poly Sci one day, much of my course will revolve around the USSC and how the other two branches revolve around it.
Ok, starting to sound like a HUGE dork now, so I'll shut up.
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Now I know why wehad those what-I-thought-weepointless debates in class. ;)
Abortion is wrong. The end, Huwoollabugabduhla. It's not that hard to understand WHY abortion is wrong. You've got all these people protesting AGAINST people who are pro-Life, even though the Pro-Choice peeps were once a Fetus (or Embryo), themselves. If a girl is raped, there's always c-sections. And the bastard who raped her should be whipped, have salt poured in his wounds, he should have his hands cut off, his tongue ripped out with tongs, and he should be burned alive, for allthe twn to see and the townspeple should be able to shoot rubber bands at his bear ass. >Pro-Life<
Don't have a shit clue what your talking about. But I have a feeling this is going to stir up some kind of debate here, and make this a long ass thread. (I've seen it happen before)
LMAO!
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You forgot the orange juice in his wounds.
Very important!
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Abortion is wrong. The end, Huwoollabugabduhla. It's not that hard to understand WHY abortion is wrong. You've got all these people protesting AGAINST people who are pro-Life, even though the Pro-Choice peeps were once a Fetus (or Embryo), themselves. If a girl is raped, there's always c-sections. And the bastard who raped her should be whipped, have salt poured in his wounds, he should have his hands cut off, his tongue ripped out with tongs, and he should be burned alive, for allthe twn to see and the townspeple should be able to shoot rubber bands at his bear ass.
What does a c-section have to do with anything? The point is, if shes raped, she doesn't want the child! She doesn't want to carry it, she doesn't want to pay the hospital bills, she doesn't want to go throught he adoption process and paperwork. Its going to be emotionally painful every time she wakes up and sees the child!
A C-section happens when the child is being born! They cut it out of the womb instead of lettering it come out naturally.
Is abortion wrong? Maybe. But thats a question of MORALITY. The gov't is not in the business of inforcing morality, only equity. And frankly, the gov't doesn't have the right to tell anyone what they can or cannot do with their own bodies, IMO.
---Andrew
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lol and there goes grakthis preaching again..
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I agree with Andrew...
I voted yes, but never answered why.
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I for one think abortion is morally wrong, I'm very 50/50 on the side of its constitutionality. I vary from case to case.
Golden rule is government can't legislate morality.
In the end, eventually abortion will be the single most disputed fact in the USSC. If/when Rehnquist and O'Conner retire (two republicans) off the court, Bush (or another Rep. pres.--O'Conner and Rehnquist are both on the record for saying they will only retire if a Rep. president sees to their replacements) will put to pro-lifers on the court giving them an advantage. Will the next court do the unthinkable and reverse itself? Time will tell...
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Now I know why wehad those what-I-thought-weepointless debates in class. ;)
Abortion is wrong. The end, Huwoollabugabduhla. It's not that hard to understand WHY abortion is wrong. You've got all these people protesting AGAINST people who are pro-Life, even though the Pro-Choice peeps were once a Fetus (or Embryo), themselves. If a girl is raped, there's always c-sections. And the bastard who raped her should be whipped, have salt poured in his wounds, he should have his hands cut off, his tongue ripped out with tongs, and he should be burned alive, for allthe twn to see and the townspeple should be able to shoot rubber bands at his bear ass. >Pro-Life<
okay, i respect your opinion, but put yourself in my best friends shoes:
she was raped when she was 9 years old, and got pregnant. There was no way in hell she would be able to survive the nine months alone that it takes to carry a child, much less a child birth, or C Section (which is only needed if a woman can not medically give birth to a child - like Grakthis said, it has nothing to do whether or not a woman was raped). Abortion was the only option that was possible. Had she not had an abortion, neither her or the child would have survived.
You don't have to be Pro-Abortion to think that abortion should be legal. If you look back to the mid 20th Century when abortion was illegal, women were getting it done anyways. Only because it was illegal the procedures often took place in unsterilized rooms (hotels were used most often) with unsterilized equipment, thus often causing dangerous infections that sometimes resulted in death.
Women are going to have abortions whether it's legal or not, so you might as well make it legal. [/i]
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If/when Rehnquist and O'Conner retire (two republicans) off the court, Bush ... will put to pro-lifers on the court giving them an advantage. Will the next court do the unthinkable and reverse itself? Time will tell...
let's hope not......*shuddersatthemerethoughtofpresidentbush*
like a great teacher in my school once said:
"The problem with the Bush Administration is that they're too afraid to think outside of the box"
(big ups to Big Cal :wink: )
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*Letting the Republican in him shine through*
What's wrong with Bush? Do we really need another Democrat to screw (pun intended) up???
O'Conner's "conservatism" also shined through during the Bush v. Gore case that pretty much settled the 2000 election. Newseek printed an article of witnesses overhearing O'Conner saying "Oh, this is horrible." when Fox News reported that Gore had won Florida.
It turns out, she is/was hoping to retire and would only do so if a Rep (in this case Bush) appointed her replacement.
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frankly, Pres. Bush just irks me. that's all. when i see him, or hear him stutter, the muscles in my body tense up and i just have to look away. and all that democrate/republican crap just annoys me. i pay no attention to what party someone's in....in the end it shouldn't matter. who cares if someone's a democrat? people should pay more attention to their goals and actions...*not directed towards anyone in particular, just a general thought*
*clearsthroat* sticking this topic to Roe vs. Wade.......
i just hope that bush doesn't illegalize abortion. whether or not he agrees with it shouldnt' matter. he should be looking out for the well being of women across the nation. thats all, i'm spent.
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What's wrong with Bush?
:roll:
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Yes, Bush is a terrible president.
We need more Clinton's in the White House! (The way he was going, given another four years, he would have MADE more Clinton's)
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Yes, Bush is a terrible president.
We need more Clinton's in the White House! (The way he was going, given another four years, he would have MADE more Clinton's)
If the worse thing he did, and the only thing you can come up with is that he got a blow job... He lied about a blow job. President Bush lied that something was a threat to national security, and it wasn't.
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lol and there goes grakthis preaching again..
lol and there goes jen, trying to pretend she has an opinion again..
---Andrew
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*Letting the Republican in him shine through*
What's wrong with Bush? Do we really need another Democrat to screw (pun intended) up???
Republics are so out of touch with reality. Do they have good economic theory? yes. Do they apply policy well. Yes. Do they have ANY notion of what the general populace actually wants? Not even remotly.
It's CLEAR that the american public is HEAVILY pro-choice. This is not even DEBATED by any pro-lifers I know. If you took a vote TOMMOROW it would be overwhelmingly pro-choice.
Never have I seen a party more out of touch with the general public. The democrats inability to put together a good candidate should have given the republicans a landslide in 2000, but Dubya continuted to screw things up so badly that Ralph Nader managed to grab a healthy percent of the votes! And even THEN Gore won the popular vote.
Dubya is a joke of a president. He didn't win the election, hes got nazi's for advisors and he's got the intellect of a 12 year old. I can't wait till he's gone.
---Andrew
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If the worse thing he did, and the only thing you can come up with is that he got a blow job... He lied about a blow job. President Bush lied that something was a threat to national security, and it wasn't.
Bad example Joe. There is some REAL debate over weather or not Iraq was a threat to national security. Cause frankly, most people still strongly believe that Sadam was. If NOTHING else, he still supported terrorist camps; which means he needed to go.
However, Dubya has done MUCH worse than that. He's tied up in so many different schemes to raise money for his cronies... did people completely forget about he and Chaney's involvement in Enron?
---Andrew
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If the worse thing he did, and the only thing you can come up with is that he got a blow job... He lied about a blow job. President Bush lied that something was a threat to national security, and it wasn't.
Bad example Joe. There is some REAL debate over weather or not Iraq was a threat to national security. Cause frankly, most people still strongly believe that Sadam was. If NOTHING else, he still supported terrorist camps; which means he needed to go.
However, Dubya has done MUCH worse than that. He's tied up in so many different schemes to raise money for his cronies... did people completely forget about he and Chaney's involvement in Enron?
---Andrew
Well see! more stuff, I didn't forget the Enron thing although I think the rest of the planet did...thanks Andrew.
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Roe v. Wade is clearly unconsitutional. And the case was a fraud.
Norma McCorvey (aka Jane Roe) recently filed a statement saying that she didn't understand what abortion was when she had the case. Furthermore, she never read the statement her lawyers prepared for her, before sigining it. She only met with her lawyers twice. Once when the lawyers recruited her for this test case and another time to sign the statement they prepared. Most of the case was fabricated. And guess what, she didn't even get an abortion afterwards!
Here is why it is unconsitutional. The ninth amendment says that the Bill of Rights is not a complete list of rights. Roe v Wade pretty much said that abortion is one of those rights that isn't listed in the Consitution that belongs to the people. This is a dangerous precident. The federal Courts can use this to ursup any state law the feel like with it. My interpretation of the 9th amendment is that we have all rights not prohibited by the state and federal governments.
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Ah, the 9th amendment. What a beautiful yet wicked creature it is.
You're right about Norma McCorvey though. She had little/nothing to do with the case. However, that has 0 to do with the court's ruling. If not Norma McCorvey, it would have been someone else. If not Roe v. Wade, Planned Parenthood v. Casey. Hell, Griswold v. Connecticut should have given us our first insight that the USSC would always hold the "privacy" right.
Oh yes, by the way, if you ever have about an hour to waste, I recommend the two best USSC opinions ever wrote: Griswold v. Connecticut (the majority opinion by Chief Justice Warren) and Marbury v. Madison (majority opinion by Chief Justice James Marshall). It's pretty humorous how these guys can take the constitution and pretty much do with it what they wish.
And also, the majority opinion in the Roe v. Wade case (I think it was Blackmun that wrote it--might be wrong) is one of the worst prepared I've read anywhere. In my opinion it was just a bunch of hellabulu put down on a piece of paper that was strictly more opinion than constitutional fact. Rehnquist was in the dissent of that decision, and he punched holes all through the arguments. IMO, if the opinion in the Roe v. Wade case would have been written better we might now have had the same typical abortion cases we have virtually every day now.
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Ok.. though I'm tempted to take Andrew's bait.. and respond on the Republicans out of touch with reality comment... and post example after example of Dems LITERALLY acting quite insane (*cough*Nancy Pelosi *cough*).. I wont...
I just want to address my LARGEST pet peeve ever on this subject...
pro-CHOICE is NOT pro-ABORTION.. it is exactly what it says. It is being in favor of a human beings right to decide for themselves what is the right decision for their own body. Of course, in an ideal situation, no one would want abortion to be the choice but no government should be able to tell someone what they can and can not do to their own body.
And I will tell you this. Make abortions illegal, and you will simply make it another drug trade. You will make it shady and dirty, and move it to the back allys. You will make it profitable for the WRONG people.. instead of sanitary doctor's offices they'll have hotel bathrooms... and probably cost the lives of many young women who didin't have to die... if this happens, all the pro-lifers should sleep 10x worse knowing what they've accomplished...
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Ok.. though I'm tempted to take Andrew's bait.. and respond on the Republicans out of touch with reality comment... and post example after example of Dems LITERALLY acting quite insane (*cough*Nancy Pelosi *cough*).. I wont...
Boooooooooooooooooo!!! you're no fun anymore :wink:
pro-CHOICE is NOT pro-ABORTION..
8O It's not?!? damn! Im on the wrong side! Which party supports killing all babies? :twisted:
---Andrew
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And I will tell you this. Make abortions illegal, and you will simply make it another drug trade. You will make it shady and dirty, and move it to the back allys. You will make it profitable for the WRONG people.. instead of sanitary doctor's offices they'll have hotel bathrooms... and probably cost the lives of many young women who didin't have to die... if this happens, all the pro-lifers should sleep 10x worse knowing what they've accomplished...
j/w didn't that happen years ago, i guess before it was made legal?
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j/w didn't that happen years ago, i guess before it was made legal?
yeah, my mom was telling me about that. It was also part of the show "American Dreams". A woman wanted an abortion so she went to a hotel room where a bunch of other women were getting it done as well...
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i don't believe in abortion at all. I believe that a baby is a human being and that you are murdering a innocent life. For every action there is an reaction. And ppl in this case learn that. But even if you are raped i would put the baby up for adoption, there are a lot of couples that don't have the pleasure to conceive children . This case they can take a new life and be there parents. so that's what i believe.
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i don't believe in abortion at all. I believe that a baby is a human being and that you are murdering a innocent life. For every action there is an reaction. And ppl in this case learn that. But even if you are raped i would put the baby up for adoption, there are a lot of couples that don't have the pleasure to conceive children . This case they can take a new life and be there parents. so that's what i believe.
Do you honestly believe that you have the RIGHT or POWER to force another woman to have a child she doesn't want? If she doesn't WANT the child, shes gonna smoke, drink, maybe take drugs (if she was into that before), not take care of her body or the baby. Why would she? She doesn't WANT the child. Forcing a woman to carry a child she doesn't want becuase YOU say it's murder is not only WRONG but it's also UNJUST. The child cannot exist independant of the mother therefore it's the mothers decision what she wants to do with her body.
do i think abortion is MORALLY wrong? Absolutly. IF there is a hell, I think there is a good shot an irresponsible girl who gets pregnant and has an abortion is headed there. But thats the issue of GOD and not the GOVERNMENT. Let God punish for that.
---Andrew
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i know this doesnt really matter at all but i wrote about roe v. wade for my US history and govt essay on the regents exam...