NESSAholics.com
Other Topics => Completely Off-Topic => Topic started by: sayyouwould on October 02, 2003, 04:42:40 pm
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a cross and a jewish star on the same chain at the same time with 2 hearts on the chain too would it offend anyone?
Just curious because I want to wear it to school tomorrow but I wouldn't want to offend anyone.
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I know Messianic Jews who do similar things all the time.
Why not?
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No, aslong as you know what both of them mean.
I hate when peole preach or support things they don't know one thing about.
Like, in System of a Down's "Chop Suey" the lead singer quotes what Christ said on the Crucifix when He was dying: "Eloi, Eloi, Lama Sabachthani?" translated to English as "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" Christ also said "Father, into Thy hands, I commend My Spirit." However, the lead singer says "Father Dearest, I commend My Spirit," which for one, quoting Christ while He was dying is sacrilegious in itself, but in the video for the song, you see all these people in the crowd singing and singing along to it, when you know damn good and well they don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
Stuff like that gets on my nerves. Not you wearing The Star of David and A Cross on the same chain, as long as you know what they mean and you respect Them.
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Eloi, Eloi, Lama Sabachthani?
[pedantic_remark]
If my Assyrian (Christian Aramaic) is still any good, that should be more of an "e-lee, e-lee." I know most Bibles transliterate it as "eloi," but they are wrong. :wink:
[/pedantic_remark]
Of course, I never make a big deal of Jesus vs. Yahshua, soooo..........
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quoting Christ while He was dying is sacrilegious in itself
Out of interest, where is that taught? Is it a Catholic thing?
-Kev
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I know most Bibles transliterate it as "eloi," but they are wrong. :wink:
lol @ Will correcting the bible
-Kev
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quoting Christ while He was dying is sacrilegious in itself
Out of interest, where is that taught? Is it a Catholic thing?
-Kev
Kev, I'm catholic and I have never been told there is anything wrong with quoting Chris while he was dying. I think shes just talkin out her ass.... as usual.
---Andrew
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a cross and a jewish star on the same chain at the same time with 2 hearts on the chain too would it offend anyone?
Just curious because I want to wear it to school tomorrow but I wouldn't want to offend anyone.
If you want to wear it, go ahead!!
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quoting Christ while He was dying is sacrilegious in itself
Out of interest, where is that taught? Is it a Catholic thing?
-Kev
Kev, I'm catholic and I have never been told there is anything wrong with quoting Chris while he was dying. I think shes just talkin out her ass.... as usual.
That's all very well for Chris, but I wanted to know about Jesus Christ ;) hah. Sorry.
Thanks, I just wondered. I like to try and keep track of this stuff. I could understand why some people perhaps wouldn't want to out of respect, but the idea of it being somehow sacreligious seemed strange. After all that would have the interesting side effect of making the bible itself (the gospels at least) sacreligous.
-Kev
P.S. I don't know how to spell sacreligious :-\ (or can I?)
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a cross and a jewish star on the same chain at the same time with 2 hearts on the chain too would it offend anyone?
Just curious because I want to wear it to school tomorrow but I wouldn't want to offend anyone.
If you want to wear it, go ahead!!
I don't think that something like that can be put down to personal taste. Sure, wear two necklaces if they look cute together- but not if you don't believe in the things they stand for. I hate it so much when people wear crosses just for the sheer fashion of it- wear them if they mean something. But stay well away if they don't.
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a cross and a jewish star on the same chain at the same time with 2 hearts on the chain too would it offend anyone?
Just curious because I want to wear it to school tomorrow but I wouldn't want to offend anyone.
If you want to wear it, go ahead!!
I don't think that something like that can be put down to personal taste. Sure, wear two necklaces if they look cute together- but not if you don't believe in the things they stand for. I hate it so much when people wear crosses just for the sheer fashion of it- wear them if they mean something. But stay well away if they don't.
lol
My opinion is:
Wear what you want if you want to wear it
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it might offend someone but not me...
i might look at you odd if i didn't know you lol...
i made a poster with the star of david on it and the cross...of course it was for a project....
I don't think it matters, and hey if someone asks say you are reps. the nessa, cuz she is half and half.
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My opinion is:
Wear what you want if you want to wear it
*agrees with si*
Just because a cross means something for you doesn't mean that it has to mean something for everyone. Don't push your beliefs on other people. If I want to wear a cross as a pure fashion symbol, then that's my perogative.
What, you think that the church has a copywright on the crucifix? What if I'm Roman? Didn't the romans have the cross as a symbol of something before the catholics?
If I want to wear a star of david cause i think it looks bitchin, that's my call. Symbols only have the meanings the viewer gives them. There is no inate message in a cross.......
---Andrew
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That's all very well for Chris, but I wanted to know about Jesus Christ ;) hah. Sorry.
Smart ass :wink:
P.S. I don't know how to spell sacreligious :-\ (or can I?)
I think that's right. Or you could go Homer style and say "mmmmmm sacrilicious"
---Andrew
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My opinion is:
Wear what you want if you want to wear it
*agrees with si*
Just because a cross means something for you doesn't mean that it has to mean something for everyone. Don't push your beliefs on other people. If I want to wear a cross as a pure fashion symbol, then that's my perogative.
What, you think that the church has a copywright on the crucifix? What if I'm Roman? Didn't the romans have the cross as a symbol of something before the catholics?
If I want to wear a star of david cause i think it looks bitchin, that's my call. Symbols only have the meanings the viewer gives them. There is no inate message in a cross.......
---Andrew
That's about what I meant, yeah
I'm not very good with (English) words at all, but that's about what I wanted to say
:D
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it's not my business, but j/w why would you wear them together?
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I didn't wear the cross because it didn't fit on the chain. Ohh well. But the star of david was on there and so was my great grandmothers chai. On the chain I also had 2 hearts that were given to me from ex boyfriends. And then I had a necklace that I got for passover from my aunt with all pretty hebrew letters which I wraped around my wrist and it looked like a braclet. I then took the chain that I was wearing around my neck and wraped it around my wrist like delta goodrem style only with a bunch of jew jewlery.
I wanted to wear a cross too because even though it's NOT my belief,it's my moms and so it does mean something to me. I wear it because it was given to me. I just wasn't sure if wearing a cross,star of david, and a chai would be too much.
But I'm glad no one here really had a problem with it. Soon once I get a new chain that fits all of my jewlery I'll wear all of it!!
Cool!!
Happy Yom Kippur y'all!!
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it's not my business, but j/w why would you wear them together?
Good question, Joey!!
*ten points for Limey
lol
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Quoting ANYONE while he or she as dying in the way System of a Down did is sacrielgious, especially when That Person just happens to b Jesus Christ, the Guy who died for our salvation.
Just something to put in perspective.
And Andrew . . . Why was I "speaking out of my ass?" Am I the only person who finds it disrespectful? It could just be me, I don't know though.
And I never said Shelly couldn't wear it, I simply stated that I thought it was fine as long as she respected both the Cross and he Star of David.
Shitheads. :P
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8O
8O
CeCe said "shitheads"
*Is shocked
Now, that's no language for a Catholic girl!!!
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I wanted to wear a cross too because even though it's NOT my belief,it's my moms and so it does mean something to me. I wear it because it was given to me. I just wasn't sure if wearing a cross,star of david, and a chai would be too much.
this makes perfect sense, and you should wear both, even if someone gets offended.
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*points to Joey*
It was he!
No, No, No, I just hav to restrain myself from saying G-D, and bitch. 'Cause they're just not right, although I say bitch more often than I should.
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*points to Joey*
It was he!
No, No, No, I just hav to restrain myself from saying G-D, and bitch. 'Cause they're just not right, although I say bitch more often than I should.
me?
*i am confused*
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YOU said "shitheads."
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yes, i magically did that...
you need another sig CeCe...
and i don't see the wrong in the star of david and the cross, my friend wears fairy dust (its really glitter), a pentacle, and a cross.
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I think that's right. Or you could go Homer style and say "mmmmmm sacrilicious"
:) Classic line.
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Quoting ANYONE while he or she as dying in the way System of a Down did is sacrielgious, especially when That Person just happens to b Jesus Christ, the Guy who died for our salvation.
That's cool. I just wondered if it was actually a teaching you'd heard somewhere.
Am I the only person who finds it disrespectful?
I guess it would depend on what they (System of a Down) meant by it. Which I don't really know, so nah I don't find it disrespectful (by default). Not that you're wrong to find it so.
-Kev
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Am I the only person who finds it disrespectful?
I guess it would depend on what they (System of a Down) meant by it. Which I don't really know, so nah I don't find it disrespectful (by default). Not that you're wrong to find it so.
-Kev
I think maybe CeCe meant that what Andrew said (That she was "talking out of her ass") was disrespectful, no?
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Not disrespectful to me, no. Disrespectful to Christ, being that they quoted His last words (before dying, not after the Ressurection) AND they added shit to it. Plus people were singing along to it, when half of them didn't know what it meant.
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lol
ok, good
uhm
not good, I mean
ugh
anyway
"it ain't nuthin' but muuuusic"
:D
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Not disrespectful to me, no. Disrespectful to Christ, being that they quoted His last words (before dying, not after the Ressurection) AND they added shit to it. Plus people were singing along to it, when half of them didn't know what it meant.
Yeah that makes sense. I can see why you don't like it.
-Kev
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My opinion is:
Wear what you want if you want to wear it
*agrees with si*
Just because a cross means something for you doesn't mean that it has to mean something for everyone. Don't push your beliefs on other people. If I want to wear a cross as a pure fashion symbol, then that's my perogative.
What, you think that the church has a copywright on the crucifix? What if I'm Roman? Didn't the romans have the cross as a symbol of something before the catholics?
If I want to wear a star of david cause i think it looks bitchin, that's my call. Symbols only have the meanings the viewer gives them. There is no inate message in a cross.......
---Andrew
So what you're saying is that you have no respect for other people's beliefs? You could just as easily reverse your statement and state that just because a cross means nothing to you doesn't mean it doesn't mean a great deal to one of your friends or family or indeed anyone else. If you say that you don't 'care' about other people's views and beliefs then not only is that ignorant and indeed arrogant, but if everyone adopted that view- how on earth would the world work?
In a society, its not 'your call' or 'perogative'. Yes, you may decide what to wear daily and decide the music you listen to, the TV you watch etc but you will always take other people's opinions into account- because that is the way a civilised society works. That is, if you live in one.
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Quoting ANYONE while he or she as dying in the way System of a Down did is sacrielgious, especially when That Person just happens to b Jesus Christ, the Guy who died for our salvation.
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And Andrew . . . Why was I "speaking out of my ass?" Am I the only person who finds it disrespectful? It could just be me, I don't know though.
Quoting someone on their death bed does not strike me as being even remotly disrespectful. In fact, if anything a person says should be repeated, it's his or her last words.
System of a Down was not making fun of Jesus. They were using the line for dramatics. I hate the band, but I dont think there was anything wrong with that lyric.
The Catholic church didn't come out against SOAD, they didn't protest concerts. I have never heard anyone but you complain about it. That should say something in and of itself.
And just because YOU THINK Jesus died for YOUR salvation doesn't mean that the guys from SOAD think that. They can quote anyone they want. For all they believe, maybe Jesus was just another random guy with a good message?
The reason i think you are talkin out your ass, is because you have this immature tendency to assume that your world view is the correct world view and that there can be no other. YOU'RE WRONG. It's fine to believe you are right, but it's not fine to assume that you are infallible.
This is what happens when you live a sheltered life in the wealthy suburbs of a mid-sized mid-western town. You don't learn the concepts of diversity. You're a smart Kid CeCe. Entirely to smart to consistently say such immature things.
---Andrew
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So what you're saying is that you have no respect for other people's beliefs? You could just as easily reverse your statement and state that just because a cross means nothing to you doesn't mean it doesn't mean a great deal to one of your friends or family or indeed anyone else. If you say that you don't 'care' about other people's views and beliefs then not only is that ignorant and indeed arrogant, but if everyone adopted that view- how on earth would the world work?
Ok, first I want to open up with a vocabulary less. Ignorant means that you are lacking knowledge of some sort. Arrogance, in a nut shell, means placing yourself above all others and believing that everything is always all about you. Not caring about the religions of others is not necesarily a sign of ignorance or arrogance. It's a sign of apathy. IT COULD mean I am arrogant, and that is why I don't care. But it's not neccesarily a cause/effect relationship. Also, not caring about other religions could LEAD to ignorance, but one does not neccesarily follow the other. Now that we've cleared that up... we can move to a more important point....
Your argument is very valid (why is it that the two british people - kev and rosie - consistently give me the most rational arguments?), but still flawed
Not believing the same things as another person is not the same as not respecting that other person.
Hmmm..... not clear... must rephrase.
If I believed that the color red was sacred... would you stop wearing it? What if 5 million people believed that the color red was sacred?
(..... intuitive leeeeeeeeeeeeap...)
I greatly respect the views and beliefs of other people. So much so that I am willing to argue about them (People who don't care, don't argue, they just point and laugh). But respecting another person's opinions is different from being shackled by them.
Why should my life be impeeded by YOUR beliefs? Is that fair? Now, if a close friend of mine is Jewish and asks me not to wear a star of david out.... i will do so out of respect for my friend. but even then I have an option. I could stop being friends with that person and do it anyways. I must decide what is more valuable; this specific personal freedom or my friendship.
(.... ANOTHER LEAP...... everyone still with me?)
Do you eat beef? Are you aware that BILLIONS of people consider Cow's sacred and won't eat them? How many other people here eat beef? Most I would wager.
(........ it's just a jump to the left? ...... )
You can't respect everyone's opinions all the time. The only person you can always respect is yourself. Do what your own beliefs dictate WITHOUT impeeding on someone elses ability to do the same.
In a society, its not 'your call' or 'perogative'. Yes, you may decide what to wear daily and decide the music you listen to, the TV you watch etc but you will always take other people's opinions into account- because that is the way a civilised society works. That is, if you live in one.
Why? Why do I have to take someone elses opinion into account? Do you live in a socialist country? Do I? Why does your opinion HAVE to matter to me? Isn't my personal freedom important? So, should people NEVER disagree? God forbid that me disagreeing with someone might hurt their feelings.
Yes, I know I am being extreme, but I am doing so to make a point. The point being that as long as I am not doing something (or wearing something) with the INTENTION of offending someone else, then I should be MORALLY entitled to do or wear anything I want (notice I said morally, and not legally? Very key diff). And if someone else takes offense to it then it is a flaw in their own ability to seperate my personal freedoms from theirs. They must assume that I am wearing or doing something specifically to affect them personally? THAT is the TRUE definition of arrogance.
---Andrew
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The reason i think you are talkin out your ass, is because you have this immature tendency to assume that your world view is the correct world view and that there can be no other. YOU'RE WRONG. It's fine to believe you are right, but it's not fine to assume that you are infallible.
I never said I wasn't wrong. Stating something I believe isn't saying everyone else is wrong.
Even if I did state what I believe too strongly, it's because I believe in It so strongly. Not because I expect people to believe What I do. It's either believe it, or don't. And if you do decide to believe it, why not believe in it strongly?
In the past couple months it's been hard as shit to keep believing in what I've been brought up to believe. Between my parents' divorce, my cousin in the hospital, and seeing my Aunt Patsy (my cousin, Mitchell who has been sick's Mom) cry and be hurt as badly as she is, it makes me think, if there is a God. . . Why is He doing this us? Why is He doing this to my family? Why is He doing this to Mitchell?
And with thoughts like that, all I can do is Confess the thoughts I've had, go to Mass the next Sunday . . . Just to doubt It again. Yet I've still had to believe. I've still had to have hope, and I've still had to think God might have a little bit of a Heart left to spare Mitchell, for us. And going day to day, being the biggest hypocrite I know, preaching what I've believed to kids who have doubt, is hard. But it's what I have to do. I still have to believe - I still have to believe strongly, whether it's I believe that this is sacrilegious, or God is real, I have to believe it . . . Because like I said, you either don't believe, or you believe as strongly as possible. And that's what I'm trying to do. So, please, don't say what I believe is talking out of my ass.
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I never said I wasn't wrong. Stating something I believe isn't saying everyone else is wrong.
You said:
which for one, quoting Christ while He was dying is sacrilegious in itself
You did not say "i believe". Or "it seems". Or "according to the pope". You said "IS". That is making a statement of fact. When you make a statement of fact it is assumed that you immediatly do not believe anything that contradicts this fact.
For example, if I said "the sky is blue" and you said "the sky is green" would you expect me to say "sure, thats valid too". No. You would expect me to say "STFU n00b". If I said, "the sky looks blue to me" and you said "really, it looks green to me" , you would expect me to show more appreciation of your view, no?
There are a million examples of you doing the same thing in many many posts. You leave no wiggle room, no room for disagreement and no room for personal opinion. You declare things VEHEAMENTLY (often with plenty of profanity) as facts.
How else are we supposed to interpret this? Familiar with the term denotation? If not, www.dictionary.com is a great resource.
---Andrew
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I believe quoting anyone in that manner is disrespectful. There.
Also, I prefer books.
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and long arguments make me leave threads...lol sorry, but if i don't read it now there will be 5,00 more long arguments and i will never read them all.
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I don't get where my thread is going....haha my thread...sometimes I'm funny I know.
Ya anyways....I was just wondering if I could wear my jewlery together.
The End.
It's so not worth having a 20ish year old person fighting with a teenager.
unless you guys wanna fight...fine whatever...I don't understand like anything in this thread anymore.
I gotta look up info on catholicism.
OK I'm done. haha I feel so slow right now.
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CeCe and I don't "fight". We argue. Fighting is what you do with people you don't like.
---Andrew
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Awww
How nice is that?
;)
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Awww
How nice is that?
;)
Yeah yeah yeah. Don't expect me to say nice things on a regular basis though :wink:
---Andrew