NESSAholics.com
Other Topics => Polls => Topic started by: Steveau on February 08, 2004, 05:21:08 pm
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I'm just wondering what religions are represented here.
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Catholic
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I'm catholic.
:D
I was confirmed last spring, in april.
it was a beautiful ceremony.
Manda
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state of confussionism?
I don't know.
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i was raised catholic.. i'm kind of exploring right now.. to me religion is very personal and i definitely have a close connection with God.. but as for catholicism, i'm finding that as i grow older i'm learning more about myself and my personal beliefs and not relying so much on the guidelines set by the religion by which i was raised.
so i'd say i'm a cross between catholic and the last choice
kelley
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I'm a little Jew girl.
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state of confussionism?
I don't know.
ditto
I am pretty confused at the moment.. actually I have been confused for a while. I'm just not sure. I believe in God.. but sometimes i'm not sure.
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i was raised catholic.. i'm kind of exploring right now.. to me religion is very personal and i definitely have a close connection with God.. but as for catholicism, i'm finding that as i grow older i'm learning more about myself and my personal beliefs and not relying so much on the guidelines set by the religion by which i was raised.
so i'd say i'm a cross between catholic and the last choice
Couldn't have said that better myself. I've got the same story, almost word for word.
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eh.... aren't the last 2 choices the same thing?
And I am a PROUD ATHEIST. :)
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state of confussionism?
I don't know.
ditto
I am pretty confused at the moment.. actually I have been confused for a while. I'm just not sure.
That would be me as well ^_^
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eh.... aren't the last 2 choices the same thing?
An agnostic is someone who isn't sure about his or her beleifs in gods or a God. Someone who is debating with themselves, or is working on making a decision or is just plain old saying "I don't have the answers so I won't worry about it".
Someone who believes in God but isn't a member of any organized religion might have a very strong set of beliefs, they just don't matchup with any of the sects.
Edit: I never understood the notion of a PROUD athiest. Why would you be PROUD of NOT believing in something? Why take pride in going contrary to the beliefs of others? Because without religion, there is no athiesm. Athiesm is not a belief system in and of itself. It is the OPPOSITE position of someone who DOES believe in God.
Perhaps the correct thing to say is your are a PROUD Rationalist. Or a proud believer in science. Declaring yourself a PROUD athiest is just begging to start an argument. Be proud of the things you DO believe, not the things you DON'T believe.
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eh.... aren't the last 2 choices the same thing?
An agnostic is someone who isn't sure about his or her beleifs in gods or a God. Someone who is debating with themselves, or is working on making a decision or is just plain old saying "I don't have the answers so I won't worry about it".
I think i was taught a slightly different definition: that there will never be enough proof either way, so they don't really care. lol, actually that is kind of the same...
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eh.... aren't the last 2 choices the same thing?
An agnostic is someone who isn't sure about his or her beleifs in gods or a God. Someone who is debating with themselves, or is working on making a decision or is just plain old saying "I don't have the answers so I won't worry about it".
I think i was taught a slightly different definition: that there will never be enough proof either way, so they don't really care. lol, actually that is kind of the same...
From Miriam...
ag·nos·tic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-nstk) n.
One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
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Thanks for clearing that up...
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Perhaps the correct thing to say is your are a PROUD Rationalist. Or a proud believer in science. Declaring yourself a PROUD athiest is just begging to start an argument.
So being proud to believe that a belief in God is irrational and/or unscientific is any less argumentative than simply being proud not to believe in God? ;-)
-Kev
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So being proud to believe that a belief in God is irrational and/or unscientific is any less argumentative than simply being proud not to believe in God? ;-)
-Kev
... well. One is specifically anti-religion. The other is pro-science.
Granted, the difference is semantics. But it's like the difference between telling your boss "I can't do item A" and saying "I CAN do item B". +'s are always better than -'s.
Being "anti-religion" is a direct attack on people who believe in religion. Being "Pro-science" is just a personal belief that happens to be different than the belief of people who are religious.
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So being proud to believe that a belief in God is irrational and/or unscientific is any less argumentative than simply being proud not to believe in God? ;-)
-Kev
... well. One is specifically anti-religion. The other is pro-science.
Granted, the difference is semantics.
That was my point, the difference isn't semantics. It is the equal of the claim that every religion is unscientific. This is positive instead of a negative but it is more argumentative than simply stating that you are apposed to the beliefs of all religions (i.e athiest) and leaving it at that. In the same way that telling your boss "I can't do that vital report" is better than saying "I can spend the whole day surfing the net instead of doing that vital report". Positive's aren't always better.
"Pro-science" is just a personal belief that happens to be different than the belief of people who are religious.
That would be fine if you replace the word "Pro-science" with Muslim or Hindu. But science isn't a personal belief it's the practice of observing reality for the purpose of discovering and formulating truths. In the context of this poll any "pro-science" answer is the equal of saying that all other religions have no basis in reality. That's more argumentative to my mind (not that arguments are a bad thing)
Of course, if by science you mean an atheistic (not requiring God) belief systems such as Evolution, then none of my points are relevant and it's just terrible misuse of the word science on your part ;-)
-Kev
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Granted, the difference is semantics.
That was my point, the difference isn't semantics. It is the equal of the claim that every religion is unscientific. This is positive instead of a negative but it is more argumentative than simply stating that you are apposed to the beliefs of all religions (i.e athiest) and leaving it at that. In the same way that telling your boss "I can't do that vital report" is better than saying "I can spend the whole day surfing the net instead of doing that vital report". Positive's aren't always better.[/quote]
I disagree. Yes, saying you believe in science over religion is clearly anti-religion. But you have ot DIG into it to find the insult to religion. Being athiest and proud is right there in your face.
To take an example you hinted at, if I said I was "Muslim and proud" you wouldn't get offended. Even though JUST by being Muslim my belief system directly opposes your own on several issues.
However, if I said I was "anti-Jesus and proud!" I think you might want to fight about it.
That would be fine if you replace the word "Pro-science" with Muslim or Hindu. But science isn't a personal belief it's the practice of observing reality for the purpose of discovering and formulating truths. In the context of this poll any "pro-science" answer is the equal of saying that all other religions have no basis in reality. That's more argumentative to my mind (not that arguments are a bad thing)
I disagree. I think science IS a belief system in this conversation because science cannot DISPROVE the existance of God. Therefore, using science as a basis for saying "God does not exist" is just having faith in the idea that "if God existed, science would have found him or her by now." Therefore, using science as an argument against God is a matter of faith.
Of course, if by science you mean an atheistic (not requiring God) belief systems such as Evolution, then none of my points are relevant and it's just terrible misuse of the word science on your part ;-)
Evolution is a matter of science. I fail to see how using the word "science" to encompass different scientific theories is a misuse of the word "science". Perhaps we are confusing "science" vs "scientific method." Science, to me, with no context or connotation, is a collection of theories and explanations about our surroundings. The scientific PROCESS is the way those theories were formed. Therefore, Science (as a NOUN) tries to explain the same things as religion.
I thought it was pretty obvious when I said "pro-science" in this context (since we are talking about religion....) I was giving a short form of saying "a science based belief in how the universe came about that does not require a god or gods as a source of creation." If that wasn't obvious, than maybe I should have phrased it differently.
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I thought it was pretty obvious when I said "pro-science" in this context (since we are talking about religion....) I was giving a short form of saying "a science based belief in how the universe came about that does not require a god or gods as a source of creation." If that wasn't obvious, than maybe I should have phrased it differently.
It wasn't obvious to me. And, let's face it, if it's not obvious to someone of my superior intelligence, then it's not obvious to anyone ;-) lol
Seriously, to lend my side of this argument some final credit
"a science based belief in how the universe came about that does not require a god or gods as a source of creation."
isn't a definiton of "pro-science" you could probably obtain from combinations of any dictionary definitions of "pro" and "science". So I wouldn't personally consider it to be obvious (even in this context) without prior defnition from yourself. We now have that definition and under it, my points fall and your's stand. And now everybody has a nice definition of "Pro-science" that they can use throughout the rest of this thread. All thanks to our thread hijacking argument 8)
-Kev
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based on the predictions from the early days of the board it has been proven that a religious thread once again will create a debate between "Grakthis" and "insert screen name here"
as for the poll i would have answered "believes in a superior life form" if it existed
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It wasn't obvious to me. And, let's face it, if it's not obvious to someone of my superior intelligence, then it's not obvious to anyone ;-) lol
Well. My mistake then. EN GARDE!
Seriously, to lend my side of this argument some final credit "a science based belief in how the universe came about that does not require a god or gods as a source of creation."
isn't a definiton of "pro-science" you could probably obtain from combinations of any dictionary definitions of "pro" and "science". So I wouldn't personally consider it to be obvious (even in this context) without prior defnition from yourself. We now have that definition and under it, my points fall and your's stand. And now everybody has a nice definition of "Pro-science" that they can use throughout the rest of this thread. All thanks to our thread hijacking argument 8)
-Kev
Weeeeeeee!!!! I think I made a logical leap between posts that was harder to follow than I suspected. I said "rationalist" and "pro-science" as though they were synonyms then dropped the rationalist becuase it felt confusing.
I actually tried to Google up a definition for someone who believs in science as the explanation for all things in the universe... but I came up blank so I just made up my own word.
Edit @ Pete - STFU, n00b :twisted:
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Christian!
I'm more spiritual than religious though
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I'm very much a Catholic . . .
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Awww . . . All these li'l Catholic cheeduns up in herre.
I'm a Catholic. Betcha didn't know that.
And yeah, I go to Mass, but sometimes these things are just . . .
Nevermind. Fuck it.
I chose "Catholic."
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how can there be catholic and christian?
but there isn't like shiites and muslim?
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I dislike the phrase"Christian." Honestly not to ofend anyone, though. It's just an opinion.
Like, yesterday's homily (sermon), our priest, Fr. Terry (hehehe) said "Christian Communty" rather than "Catholic Parish" or, my perfered, "Catholic Church." So this gets me thinking girlfriends . . . I believe Christianity is a small fraction of the Catholic belief sytem. So, that's like calling Jews insert generic term for believer in God, Joey and I can't figure this one out, girlfriends. Jews wouldn't appreciate it, as conservative Catholics don't . . . I really have no clue what else to say, but whatever.
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i'm a christian, and come from a christian family, though its not easy being one....
sometimes i feel like getting away from it all..
eh, just don't get on my bad side (because i can be a little devil) and you got yourself a loving christian girl with morals... :D
I realized christians are not perfect....but i feel much better being around someone who understands me..and my lifestyle...which is why i want to marry someone someday who has a close relationship with god..and have good morals..etc but i guess that has nothing to do with what you just asked..Lol
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Edit @ Pete - STFU, n00b :twisted:
57FD W4\\\\483!!!11!
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how can there be catholic and christian?
but there isn't like shiites and muslim?
I dont know, maybe it's just because there's more catholics and christians on this board? This board is based in the US, and those are 2 of the main religions here. They both have the same foundations of faith, but are actually very different.
Unless I'm not seeing here, no one has choosen "muslim" yet.
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You can't really have both, you'd have to have Cathoic and "any of the many Protestant religions" orrr errrrr something, and then theres the Eastern Chruch, which isn't Protestant soooooooo I donno what the best way to put it is. . . .
It's like asking someone "Are you a person or are you a man?"
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only 2 jews?? that's so weird...where I live there are a ton of jews...and then there are towns around me like Canton and Sharon with TONS more jews. It's so weird...I'm used to a lot of jews..and here 2?? weird. I'm kinda feeling left out. :?
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how can there be catholic and christian?
but there isn't like shiites and muslim?
I dont know, maybe it's just because there's more catholics and christians on this board? This board is based in the US, and those are 2 of the main religions here. They both have the same foundations of faith, but are actually very different.
Unless I'm not seeing here, no one has choosen "muslim" yet.
I was just using the muslim for an example. I mean the Catholic church is a Christian church. They believe in Christ....So I was wondering why there was the religion, and then a division of the religion...
Though there are many Catholics on here, ultimately they are Christian.
Does that make sense?
I'm gonna shut up now
and there are a few Muslims that are known...lol but again, I was just using them as an example.
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isn't Catholicism a branch of Christianity?
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You can't really have both, you'd have to have Cathoic and "any of the many Protestant religions" orrr errrrr something, and then theres the Eastern Chruch, which isn't Protestant soooooooo I donno what the best way to put it is. . . .
It's like asking someone "Are you a person or are you a man?"
I don't understand what you're saying...
But the Catholic church and the Christian church are very different. I've grown up in the Christian church (my grandpa is a minister) and have been to 25-35 Catholic masses (i go to a Catholic school) and they are soooo different. They believe in basically the same thing, but the way the worship is way different.
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isn't Catholicism a branch of Christianity?
technically it is. But they are different in ways.
to me Catholicism just has a lot more traditions and stuff.
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the Catholic church is very different from a Protestant church...not a Christian church, seeing that a Catholic church is a Christian church...
C is saying a man is a person, but would probably say they were a man before saying they were a person.
like a Catholic would say they were a Catholic before they'd say they were a Christian...
also aren't mormons Christians, too?
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This is enlightening...please continue. Up until a year or 2 ago I thought every religon that believed in Jesus was the same...they just had special names...oops.
I went to my friends Luthren church because she was going to be singing so when all they talked about was jesus I was kinda like ohh wow...this is how a church is? They don't talk about God? Then I went to my other friends Catholic church because I slept over her house on a Saturday night and her uncle is a deacon so they go every week...but they talked about Jesus and God and I was like :?: :?: So...I needed some explaining which I never got fully. :S
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ok this could get interesting...and some of this could partially be wrong, because I had World History last semester and may have forgot some stuff since then...
There was the Catholic church (believes Jesus is savior, believes in God, and believes in Mary...though C and CeCe and a few other can clue you in more then I can about this).
Then (don't remember names) somewhere in Greece (i think) they disagreed with the Catholics, and then the Pope excommunicated them(saying they can't get into heaven) and So they started the Greek Orthodox Church and excommunicated the Pope...
those 2 were "rivals" in the Christian church.
Then came a few other people. One of the most important is Martin Luther, who wanted change in the Christian Church. (The Catholic church, at this time, was pretty much immoral and greedy). You get the Luthren church from him. You also have the King of England (Henry the 8th) who started the church of England(is that it?) because the Pope said he could not get a divorce(though he did have a trouble with keeping a wife...but you might have to already know about that).
So the branch of Christianity that has Martin Luther and Henry the 8th are known as Protestant (like prostest.)
I am not sure where a lot of the other divisions of the Chritian church come into play...and Note that that is a very short summary, and I probably left out a ton of important information, and could, myself, be very wrong.
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so now there are like 100000 religons dervived from Catholicism?
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lol maybe a little less...
and they're not different religions, just different "branches" or divisions?
Same religion.
It's kinda like Christianity and Islam both come from Judaism, but someone's belief changed, and that molded into new religions?
I need to stop, because I am not looking this up lol, and I don't want to start talking about something I know nothing about.
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You can't really have both, you'd have to have Cathoic and "any of the many Protestant religions" orrr errrrr something, and then theres the Eastern Chruch, which isn't Protestant soooooooo I donno what the best way to put it is. . . .
It's like asking someone "Are you a person or are you a man?"
I don't understand what you're saying...
But the Catholic church and the Christian church are very different. I've grown up in the Christian church (my grandpa is a minister) and have been to 25-35 Catholic masses (i go to a Catholic school) and they are soooo different. They believe in basically the same thing, but the way the worship is way different.
Joeyyy got my "man" question down . . .and Mormans are Christian. . .
ahem Masses, not masses. I won't get into the break between East and West, unless you want me too.
But wayyyyy later, Luther was like "woah none of this shit we're doing is in the Bible, who died and made you pick what we do? I'm only doing what the Bible says, if it ain't in there it ain't 'truth'"
And the Catholics were like "The Bible and our tradions together are one sourse for our faith, they gotta go hand in hand."
and Luther was like "Screw it, not only are you guys doing schtuff not in the Bible, you're acting really corrupt too. Letting people buy their way into heaven so you can build Churches and still have enough money to live bettter than anyone out there? That's wrong, dude."
And then they kinda broke up. And as ar as worship goes, they kicked out all the tradions and did what's in the Bib;e
And as far as henry goes he got special permission to marry his brothers widow, got bored with her then told the pope, "you should never have given me that specail permission. My counrty isn't listenin' to you no more."
And there we go, I just made the Protestant and Anglican Chruch in vernacular!
I could discuss this much better but I have no patience to type.
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and if you're wondering...those are not direct quotes. :wink:
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I dislike the phrase"Christian." Honestly not to ofend anyone, though. It's just an opinion.
Like, yesterday's homily (sermon), our priest, Fr. Terry (hehehe) said "Christian Communty" rather than "Catholic Parish" or, my perfered, "Catholic Church." So this gets me thinking girlfriends . . . I believe Christianity is a small fraction of the Catholic belief sytem. So, that's like calling Jews insert generic term for believer in God, Joey and I can't figure this one out, girlfriends. Jews wouldn't appreciate it, as conservative Catholics don't . . . I really have no clue what else to say, but whatever.
Ummm you have no idea do you? Catholicism is a branch of Christianity. Not vice versus. Therefore when your priest said "Christian community" he was being accepting of NON-Catholic Christians who might have been in attendance.
Edit: AS a side note. There is no such thing as a "Christian" faith. It doesn't exist. There are individual churches that call themselves "Christian" but Christian is a BROAD specturm that consists of members of many Christian faiths. There is no Christian organization. There is no Christian cardinal. There is no seperate Christian Holy book. There is no one who makes decisions about the direction of the "Christian" faith. I see a lot of people confusing this as though there is a "Christian Church" when there isn't. But there are Christian churches (with a small c).
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Ummm you have no idea do you? Catholicism is a branch of Christianity. Not vice versus. Therefore when your priest said "Christian community" he was being accepting of NON-Catholic Christians who might have been in attendance.
i agree in terms of the use of the term christian- you aren't one or the other if you are catholic.. you are either solely christian (or another denomination of christianity) or catholic, which is ALSO christian. from what you are saying i'm not really sure why you don't like the term "christian", ceceeee, because being catholic is being christian (as derived from believing in christ as savior). maybe i'm missing something here in the logic..
i don't believe religion can be debated- since no one knows what happens after death, how can one religion proclaim to be right against all other religions?
kelley
EDIT- in this post i basically stated the same words over and over again. it's confusing. my bad. just go on and ignore me if you don't understand what i'm trying to say :-) ROCK!
and i love you.
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Except humans can argue about the dumbest stuff...
We're a great race :).
wow this is gonna be a lot for people to read...
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monkeys are a great race,too,you know. :D
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I think the main difference looking at it from a Christian perspective is Catholic's worship in a more cerimonial and ornimental way.
Catholics have baptism, communions, rosarys, crossing them selves before going into prayer, confirmation, and they say the Hail Mary and Our Father prayers a lot. I've been to masses at a few different places and I can always expect the same things. The singing, prayers, the readings, the sermon, the communion, the exchange of peace (i like this part!)... etc.
Christians just basically rely on their faith to worship. We do get baptised (I did 3 years ago), but other than that there are no big religious ceremonies. Church basically consists of singing gospels (or in high school worship we sometimes sing contemporary worship songs), praying and the sermon. It's just more basic, and though I have no problem with the way Catholics do it, I prefer it that way. I'm strong in my faith, and I don't think I need anything else. I'm more spiritual then religious (by the book) though, so I guess that's why I like it.
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i don't believe religion can be debated- since no one knows what happens after death, how can one religion proclaim to be right against all other religions?
Belief systems (read religions, but I hate that word) can always be debated if they make anything more than pure faith claims (what happens after death is a perfect example of a pure faith claim). Any Christian belief system that takes the bible as it's foundation does this, as does any "Pro-science" (;-)) belief system. In fact I think most do, so they can be debated on the validity of those claims.
-Kev
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I think the main difference looking at it from a Christian perspective is Catholic's worship in a more cerimonial and ornimental way.
Catholics have baptism, communions, rosarys, crossing them selves before going into prayer, confirmation, and they say the Hail Mary and Our Father prayers a lot. I've been to masses at a few different places and I can always expect the same things. The singing, prayers, the readings, the sermon, the communion, the exchange of peace (i like this part!)... etc.
Christians just basically rely on their faith to worship. We do get baptised (I did 3 years ago), but other than that there are no big religious ceremonies. Church basically consists of singing gospels (or in high school worship we sometimes sing contemporary worship songs), praying and the sermon. It's just more basic, and though I have no problem with the way Catholics do it, I prefer it that way. I'm strong in my faith, and I don't think I need anything else. I'm more spiritual then religious (by the book) though, so I guess that's why I like it.
Truth
But you know why christian churches have so little pomp and circumstance? Because they try to avoid anything that is specific to any one christian sect. They only do things that are common to them all. For example, if I am not mistaken, all christian sects believe in breaking bread and wine as a sign of faith. But only the Catholics (maybe a few others... not sure about Baptists) believe in Transubstantiation. Which is why in a christian church they don't ask you to kneel when the host is in the tabernacle or on the alter. Etc etc etc.
The key is, the catholic church says that divine belief comes from three sources. Divine Inspiration, Scripture, Tradition. The catholic church recognizes the New and Old testaments (less so the Old... old is looked at primarily as an illustrative set of stories for Catholics) and Tradition are all major sources of Faith.
However, christian churchs don't have tradition. They let each member bring their own tradition from their own individual faith. They just unite in their belief in the NEW testament and not in the OLD or in tradition.
And to piggy back on what Kev said, while things like pure faith cannot be argued, you CAN argue the basis of faith. For example, the moment I say "I believe in the afterlifer BECAUSE the Bible says 'BLAH!'" then you and I can argue about that interpretation of the Bible.
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Specifics. It's all we want. All I'm saying, is my Pastor, preaching at Our Mother of Sorrows Catholic Parish, should have said Catholic, rather than Christian. If he wants, he can go to Southeast Chrsitian and preach, it's fine with me.
It's like lecturing at a seminar for Oriental Businessmen, and saying to the Asians, "People of many races." It doesn't work. The note on your desk SPECIFICALLY said Oriental Businessmen. If you happen to be white and go to the seminar, don't plan on taking offense and suing for racial injustices - Because the Post-It said Orientals. The stone above Church says Our Mother of Sorrows Catholic Church, meant for Catholics. It's fine if you're white and want to learn about business with the Orients, but don't plan on the lector picking you and 45 of your closest friends out of the crowd and not even paying attention to the Asians.
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Specifics. It's all we want. All I'm saying, is my Pastor, preaching at Our Mother of Sorrows Catholic Parish, should have said Catholic, rather than Christian. If he wants, he can go to Southeast Chrsitian and preach, it's fine with me.
It's like lecturing at a seminar for Oriental Businessmen, and saying to the Asians, "People of many races." It doesn't work. The note on your desk SPECIFICALLY said Oriental Businessmen. If you happen to be white and go to the seminar, don't plan on taking offense and suing for racial injustices - Because the Post-It said Orientals. The stone above Church says Our Mother of Sorrows Catholic Church, meant for Catholics. It's fine if you're white and want to learn about business with the Orients, but don't plan on the lector picking you and 45 of your closest friends out of the crowd and not even paying attention to the Asians.
You ever heard of visitors? How do you think you become Catholic? It just magically happens? Generally you start going to Catholic mass before you become baptized Catholic.
Your pastor was being INCLUSIVE. Which is a GOOD thing for a speaker to do. If you specifically only address ONE group in the audience than you alienate the other group. No matter how small it is, alienating an audience you want to read is a bad thing (tm).
You call yourself Catholic? Fine. WWJD.
You honestly think Jesus would sit here and quibble about how the "damn dirty christians" shouldn't be included in the pastors sermon? Because, by GOD it's a CATHOLIC Mass and if the non-Catholic christians want to be included they can go to 6 Flags over Jesus and pray.
How terribly CHRISTIAN of you, CeCe.
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Nope, he's being EXCLUSIVE of US - The Catholics! Without us, he wouldn't be PREACHIN' in a Catholic Church.
(Did I mention he continuously said Christians and never once said Catholics?)
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Yeah Cece, what about the 6 RCIA Catechumens who are sitting in the from row at the 10 AM Mass? What about them?
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Nope, he's being EXCLUSIVE of US - The Catholics! Without us, he wouldn't be PREACHIN' in a Catholic Church.
(Did I mention he continuously said Christians and never once said Catholics?)
Errr no, if catholics are a small circle in the middle, he was preaching to a larger circle that still includes the Catholics. Why can't you see that? Catholics are Christians.
And please, don't act like he's somehow so privelidged to preach in a Catholic church. And that he's not worthy of your wooonderful congregation. With views like yours, he's got a hard job to do.
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Nope, he's being EXCLUSIVE of US - The Catholics! Without us, he wouldn't be PREACHIN' in a Catholic Church.
(Did I mention he continuously said Christians and never once said Catholics?)
Do you listen? TO anyone? Ever?
Maybe if I type it in all caps you will PAY attention.
CATHOLICS ARE CHRISTIANS. CATHOLICISM IS A SECT OF CHRISTIANITY. THEREFORE, BY DEFINITION, HE WAS INCLUDING YOU.
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I'm a little Jew girl.
mee too!!!
Shell - If you are in high school and anywhere on the lax side of judaism (conservative or reform) you should join NFTY and go to UAHC or Kutz Camp during the summers - i think being a part of NFTY was the most significant religious and fun thing i ever did growing up -- check it out --- http://www.nfty.org
the director of the national NFTY office is Hope Chernak and she and I have been friends for years if you have any questions you can contact her!
xoxo
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Yeah, I agree Catholics are Christians! But since I'm a Christian, but not Catholic, my Christianity is different than Catholics. Like I go to mass, but I never take communion.
It's funny, I'm not Catholic, but I've been to more masses than any other service in the past 4 years.
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Yeah, I agree Catholics are Christians! But since I'm a Christian, but not Catholic, my Christianity is different than Catholics. Like I go to mass, but I never take communion.
It's funny, I'm not Catholic, but I've been to more masses than any other service in the past 4 years.
Actually, your CHRISTIANITY is identical. Christianity is the one thing you have in common. It's the other stuff that is different. It's the ceremony, beliefs on faith, and the old testement.
Catholics and Christians agree 100% on the Christian beliefs. For example, there isn't anything that would be defined as a Christian belief that Catholics would disgree with. There are MANY things that would be defined as a Catholic belief that Christians would disagree with.
This falls under my fav latin term, Res Ipsa Loquiter. By the very definitions of the belief systems Christianity and Catholicism, the above statements MUST be true because Catholicism IS a Christian belief.
Kinda like how a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not neccesarily a square. Everything that is true of a rectangle MUST also be true of a square. But everything that is true of a square doesn't have to be true of a rectangle.
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I meant my Christianity as a whole is different. Being that the way I worship is a part of it, not only what I worship!
I already stated that we believe in the same things... but do things differently. :roll: :lol:
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http://www.thedilly.com/forum.wtd?results=posts&thread_id=4&topic_id=76939
Debates without Grakthis... 8O :mrgreen:
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I meant my Christianity as a whole is different. Being that the way I worship is a part of it, not only what I worship!
I already stated that we believe in the same things... but do things differently. :roll: :lol:
But you DON'T neccesarily believe in the same things.
Perhaps, if you are refering to YOUR beliefs, ok.. great! You believe the same as Catholics. Agreed.
But you said "we" and I am assuming by "we" you mean Christians. And that is just not true. Christians as an entire group do not have the same set of beliefs as Catholics. It's sorta like the difference between State and Federal Government. The Fed doesn't say "yes or no" on gambling, they leave it up to the states to decide. But you can't say "the federal government has the same stance on gambling as the state of Nevada". Because they don't.
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I meant my Christianity as a whole is different. Being that the way I worship is a part of it, not only what I worship!
I already stated that we believe in the same things... but do things differently. :roll: :lol:
But you DON'T neccesarily believe in the same things.
Perhaps, if you are refering to YOUR beliefs, ok.. great! You believe the same as Catholics. Agreed.
But you said "we" and I am assuming by "we" you mean Christians. And that is just not true. Christians as an entire group do not have the same set of beliefs as Catholics. It's sorta like the difference between State and Federal Government. The Fed doesn't say "yes or no" on gambling, they leave it up to the states to decide. But you can't say "the federal government has the same stance on gambling as the state of Nevada". Because they don't.
Andrew has a point. I'm Catholic, and my dad is Methodist. I've been to his church before, and even though I really love the services there, they are completely different from the Masses i go to with my mom. There are little nuances that are different, like cremation (sp?) Most Catholics don't believe it's right to be cremated, but a lot of other Christian denominations don't.
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Will you make up your mind Andrew? lol
in the last post you said that they do have the same beliefs... but now you say they're totally opposite?
We do have the same basics... (atleast every christian and catholic i know) believe in God, Jesus, Mary, etc... and the new testament (even though a lot say it is not historically true) it is the basis of both faiths. I said they do things differently... but that's what they have in common?
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Will you make up your mind Andrew? lol
in the last post you said that they do have the same beliefs... but now you say they're totally opposite?
We do have the same basics... (atleast every christian and catholic i know) believe in God, Jesus, Mary, etc... and the new testament (even though a lot say it is not historically true) it is the basis of both faiths. I said they do things differently... but that's what they have in common?
My stance in my head has been consistent. If you don't understand it then I obviously didn't phrase it properly on the MB.
I know I didn't say they were totally opposite. What I said is that they are not the same.
The best I can do at this point is direct you back to my "fed vs state" and "square vs rectangle" analogies because those are very accurate.
A Christian MIGHT have identical beliefs to a Catholic. But they don't neccesarily HAVE to. But at the very LEAST they do have a set of beliefs regarding Jesus in common.
In other words, while it is possible that YOUR beliefs are the exact same as a Catholics involving everything except ceremony, that is not neccesarily true of the Christian church in total (which I assume is what you were talking about when you said "we").
Basically, I am taking issue with one word here to correct your last statement. Had you said "I" instead of "we", I wouldn't have disagreed.
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"square vs rectangle"
i was thinking about this like 2 nights ago lol...
anyway, when ya'll are posting ya'll are separating the "Christian church" and the "Catholic church," should the separation come with the Protestant and Catholic churches instead?
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I just mean they have the same basics, not the exact same beliefs.
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I just mean they have the same basics, not the exact same beliefs.
I hate to nit pick, but that depends on what you define as "basics". If you by basics you mean "beliefs on Jesus as the son of God" then yes. I agree. But a Catholic would define transubstantiation of the host as a basic belief and 90% of the Christian sects do not believe in it.
@ Joey - Yes, the difference between Christians and Catholics began with the protestant revolution but the Catholic Churcch is not a protestant church but it is a Christian Church. The distinction is, if you are Catholic then you are also Christian. Which is what the discussion is.
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I'm in my like 4th year of studying catholicism. And I can't think of anything that I've learned that Christians dont believe in too (that doesnt have to do with traditions).
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I'm in my like 4th year of studying catholicism. And I can't think of anything that I've learned that Christians dont believe in too (that doesnt have to do with traditions).
.... tran-sub-stantiation As I said like 4 times..
The Catholics believe that the bread actually BECOMES the body of Jesus Christ. No other Christian sect believes this (except maybe Baptists... I don't remember for sure).
Also, no other Christian sect believes that Jesus was both the Son of God and God himself. Catholics do. (Father, son and holy spirit as a single entity in Jesus....).
I could think of others if I spent some time on it.
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The Catholics believe that the bread actually BECOMES the body of Jesus Christ. No other Christian sect believes this (except maybe Baptists... I don't remember for sure).
I'm a Southern Baptist and we don't even hold the "Lord's Supper" to be some communion with God. It's simply a symbol for us.
Also, no other Christian sect believes that Jesus was both the Son of God and God himself. Catholics do.
Errrrrrr... most Christians I know, including Baptists, hold this belief. It's more or less standard trinitarian theology.
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I'm in my like 4th year of studying catholicism. And I can't think of anything that I've learned that Christians dont believe in too (that doesnt have to do with traditions).
.... tran-sub-stantiation As I said like 4 times..
The Catholics believe that the bread actually BECOMES the body of Jesus Christ. No other Christian sect believes this (except maybe Baptists... I don't remember for sure).
Also, no other Christian sect believes that Jesus was both the Son of God and God himself. Catholics do. (Father, son and holy spirit as a single entity in Jesus....).
I could think of others if I spent some time on it.
I already said the whole communion belief was different! Catholics believe the bread and wine is Christ's body. Christians just think it's symbolic of it.
And every Christian I know, even my grandpa who is a minister believes that Jesus is the son of God and God himself. He is fully human and fully devine.
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The Catholics believe that the bread actually BECOMES the body of Jesus Christ. No other Christian sect believes this (except maybe Baptists... I don't remember for sure).
I'm a Southern Baptist and we don't even hold the "Lord's Supper" to be some communion with God. It's simply a symbol for us.
Also, no other Christian sect believes that Jesus was both the Son of God and God himself. Catholics do.
Errrrrrr... most Christians I know, including Baptists, hold this belief. It's more or less standard trinitarian theology.
Hmmmmmm. It was ruled on and decided by the Pope long after the protestant reformation that Jesus was both father and son. I remember studying it because many theologians consider it one of Catholicism's biggest cop-outs.
My understanding is that MOST christian faiths hold that Jesus was the son but not God his or herself. Perhaps I am wrong on that point. I'd have to look into it more to have a real opinion on it.
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Also, no other Christian sect believes that Jesus was both the Son of God and God himself. Catholics do.
Errrrrrr... most Christians I know, including Baptists, hold this belief. It's more or less standard trinitarian theology.
Most Christians I know also believe this. Most probably because it has a biblical foundation in John 1:1-18. No Pope ruling required.
-Kev
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Also, no other Christian sect believes that Jesus was both the Son of God and God himself. Catholics do.
Errrrrrr... most Christians I know, including Baptists, hold this belief. It's more or less standard trinitarian theology.
Most Christians I know also believe this. Most probably because it has a biblical foundation in John 1:1-18. No Pope ruling required.
-Kev
That does it. I am looking into this. I remember reading about the papal ruling and I remember it being a big controversy......
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Also, no other Christian sect believes that Jesus was both the Son of God and God himself. Catholics do.
Errrrrrr... most Christians I know, including Baptists, hold this belief. It's more or less standard trinitarian theology.
Most Christians I know also believe this. Most probably because it has a biblical foundation in John 1:1-18. No Pope ruling required.
-Kev
Yeah, i just took that as given. It is in Church of England anyway.
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i stand corrected on the Trinity. It was a ruling made early in the Catholic church's beginnings, but it was embraced and accepted by all Christian religions.
It also stikes me as less of a cop-out after having read this... though I can't say i am a fan of the writters explanation for why it makes no logical sense.
http://www.bible.org/docs/theology/proper/trinity.htm
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Didn't you say that you had extensive talks with a Jehovah's Witness on the nature of God? The Witnesses are one of the more popular groups who reject the Trinity.
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Didn't you say that you had extensive talks with a Jehovah's Witness on the nature of God? The Witnesses are one of the more popular groups who reject the Trinity.
There we go!
Fuck! I knew i wasn't compeltely crazy! I knew someone rejected the Trinity!
Yeah, John Mohs' father. He's a Jehova's Witness and he and I used to get into it a lot. I learned a lot from him. He wasn't a hardcore witness though cause he still drank and gambled :)