NESSAholics.com
Vanessa Carlton => General Vanessa Carlton Discussion => Topic started by: ILoveHanson on November 11, 2006, 11:38:10 am
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You can all bow down to me now. Just kidding. Sorry it took me so long to upload it. Enjoy. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiKUG88oaEo
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"The video you have requested is unavailable." :(
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yeah i literally just uploaded it right now. it takes a few minutes.
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*hug* your the best
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thank you!!
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Thanks Nicole! ;)
I'm still wanting to post mine but I need to work on some issues with the file format.
If I can actually resolve them, I'll post it here.
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Awesome! Thanks! :D
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wow! that's awesome!
so clear :D
thanks much!!
any chance we can download it somehow?
or is the audio that charmedguy18 posted in the download thread the audio from this video?
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wow! that's awesome!
so clear :D
thanks much!!
any chance we can download it somehow?
or is the audio that charmedguy18 posted in the download thread the audio from this video?
It sounds like the audio from this video to me.
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Not bad for a 10½ megabyte download, if you ask me. :D
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wow! that's awesome!
so clear :D
thanks much!!
any chance we can download it somehow?
or is the audio that charmedguy18 posted in the download thread the audio from this video?
It sounds like the audio from this video to me.
yeah I thought so.
anywho, I posted lyrics again in the discussion thread.
I think we've got a winner now :wink:
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this is so cool! :D thanks for the video.
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Thanks....
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Thank you. :)
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That was awesome. Thanks so much.
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Holy crap, how rude and annoying! Everyone is so loud. Thanks Nicole.
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Nicole you rock, thanks for posting that.
i second the request for a download of the video as well...
Vanessa is so cute. I agree with Let, peeps should shut the hell up :)
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^to download just go to javimoya.com
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^to download just go to javimoya.com
thanks =)
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Wow she is soooooooooo talented. Thanks for posting the kooli video. Has any1 started a transcription for this yet its such a kooooooool song lol :D
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i figured out the beginning on the piano, ill try to post it
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Yes! everyone is so loud
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Nicole you rock, thanks for posting that.
i second the request for a download of the video as well...
Vanessa is so cute. I agree with Let, peeps should shut the hell up :)
I couldn't even enjoy it, it was so loud and annoyed me. I would have been pissed. But she's a pro and can get in her own world and get through it. :?
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thankyou so much!!! :lol:
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WHY was everyone so loud? I know the Nessaholics weren't...so who was there besides you guys? A bunch of idiots who didn't care? Grrrr...what's the point????? :evil:
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Annoying audience! UGH!
She sounds great and it's a fantastic performance!
I'm so pumped up about this album now!
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yeah the audience really annoys me too. i love how she asked ziggy to raise her vocals because the sponsorship was really getting the party off...i think that was kind of her way of telling the audience to shut up.
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I think Let woulda told them all to shut the hell up :)
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yeah the audience really annoys me too. i love how she asked ziggy to raise her vocals because the sponsorship was really getting the party off...i think that was kind of her way of telling the audience to shut up.
Hahahaha... that's what I thought too after I watched the video.... the audience was annoying but she's funny :lol: .... thanks for the vid by the way :)
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wow! that's awesome!
so clear :D
thanks much!!
any chance we can download it somehow?
or is the audio that charmedguy18 posted in the download thread the audio from this video?
I just recorded the audio from this video.
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the crowd was terrible. she had to endure it.....
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what a beautiful song :D thank you so much!
the audio quality is excellent.
SHE SOUNDS SO GOOD! I'm getting more and more excited as the video goes on, lol.
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*Bows in awe* (http://www.buffyfan.dk/boards/images/smiles/notworthy.gif)
Thank you so much for posting. And great quality, by the way.
The song suddenly grew a lot on me :D
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oh my god this song is gorgeous. if the quality isn't great, i find it really hard to get into most songs, but the quality of this is fantastic. oh my god, i'm really really liking this song. chills, dude. :D the high parts are beautiful.
i really hope that this album is everything we hope for.
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high parts are good. I love the leap but the inward resolutions are icky... I especially dislike the compound meter *blech* I wish vanessa would stop using it please!! So far I have been underwhelmed with vanessa's new/ simpler/ and cutesy sound. Harmonies are so conventional and worn out... I wish she would try some other chords besides her diatonic ones or use some more passing modulations. I can't stand the cuteness of Vanessa's music anymore.. It sounds too much like music for kids or something.
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I guess she can't please everybody.
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So far I have been underwhelmed with vanessa's new/ simpler/ and cutesy sound. Harmonies are so conventional and worn out... I wish she would try some other chords besides her diatonic ones or use some more passing modulations. I can't stand the cuteness of Vanessa's music anymore.. It sounds too much like music for kids or something.
I'd have to disagree.... :?
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high parts are good. I love the leap but the inward resolutions are icky... I especially dislike the compound meter *blech* I wish vanessa would stop using it please!! So far I have been underwhelmed with vanessa's new/ simpler/ and cutesy sound. Harmonies are so conventional and worn out... I wish she would try some other chords besides her diatonic ones or use some more passing modulations. I can't stand the cuteness of Vanessa's music anymore.. It sounds too much like music for kids or something.
no.
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I think that her new stuff is amazing, it IS cute and I love it for that! Her songs have all been really good, and I have loved one after another, so i don't know what your talking about, her music is not conventional, look at "She Floats" and "The Wreckage"....V is just simply amazing!
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I luv ya! Thanks so much for posting!
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high parts are good. I love the leap but the inward resolutions are icky... I especially dislike the compound meter *blech* I wish vanessa would stop using it please!! So far I have been underwhelmed with vanessa's new/ simpler/ and cutesy sound. Harmonies are so conventional and worn out... I wish she would try some other chords besides her diatonic ones or use some more passing modulations. I can't stand the cuteness of Vanessa's music anymore.. It sounds too much like music for kids or something.
I agree. That's why I've learned most of her songs by ear and didn't bother printing out all of the sheet music. [Well, at least it saved me money and limits on my CopiServ card.] I can't tell you how many songs that I've learned most of by ear b/c of the repetative chords. To make it sound not so boring, I have to throw in variations. As a result, I don't really play any of Van's songs exactly like her [not that I have a problem with that, but anyway...]. Moreover, V also tends to have certain keys that she plays in.
No only do Van's simple, repetative melodies are repetative and simple, her lyrics and vocal hooks are, too. Private Radio [especially the live version in the new lyrics in the bridge], Annie, Twilight, Pretty Baby, She Floats, Papa, ATM, Rinse, All I Ask, and many others have juvenille lyrics and vocal hooks. Her live version of 'The Star Spangled Banner' is defenitely No. 1 on the list; it sounds more like a 7-year-old singing than an adult. She could've sang it better than that. I've heard her do BETTER than that. Bottom line, her voice is more capable than that; I've heard it with my own ears. Many of her songs sound like something a child would write and compose. That's why I prefer learning Alicia Keys' stuff better; it's more challenging and mature and the chords and piano riffs are a little more spontaneous. It's great to be in touch with your inner child, but it comes a time to grow up, no offense.
Elicia
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high parts are good. I love the leap but the inward resolutions are icky... I especially dislike the compound meter *blech* I wish vanessa would stop using it please!! So far I have been underwhelmed with vanessa's new/ simpler/ and cutesy sound. Harmonies are so conventional and worn out... I wish she would try some other chords besides her diatonic ones or use some more passing modulations. I can't stand the cuteness of Vanessa's music anymore.. It sounds too much like music for kids or something.
I agree. That's why I've learned most of her songs by ear and didn't bother printing out all of the sheet music. [Well, at least it saved me money and limits on my CopiServ card.] I can't tell you how many songs that I've learned most of by ear b/c of the repetative chords. To make it sound not so boring, I have to throw in variations. As a result, I don't really play any of Van's songs exactly like her [not that I have a problem with that, but anyway...]. Moreover, V also tends to have certain keys that she plays in.
No only do Van's simple, repetative melodies are repetative and simple, her lyrics and vocal hooks are, too. Private Radio [especially the live version in the new lyrics in the bridge], Annie, Twilight, Pretty Baby, She Floats, Papa, ATM, Rinse, All I Ask, and many others have juvenille lyrics and vocal hooks. Her live version of 'The Star Spangled Banner' is defenitely No. 1 on the list; it sounds more like a 7-year-old singing than an adult. She could've sang it better than that. I've heard her do BETTER than that. Bottom line, her voice is more capable than that; I've heard it with my own ears. Many of her songs sound like something a child would write and compose. That's why I prefer learning Alicia Keys' stuff better; it's more challenging and mature and the chords and piano riffs are a little more spontaneous. It's great to be in touch with your inner child, but it comes a time to grow up, no offense.
Elicia
Again... I'd have to disagree... and if you know a child that can write songs as good as V then maybe you should start showing them to some labels... she does sound young sometimes but to say that she sounds like a 7 year-old.... this must be the "ridicule good music" thread :roll:
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It's hard for her to not sound like a child ... it's her voice. I personally like it & I think no matter what kind of song she's singing, it's going to sound like that.
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high parts are good. I love the leap but the inward resolutions are icky... I especially dislike the compound meter *blech* I wish vanessa would stop using it please!! So far I have been underwhelmed with vanessa's new/ simpler/ and cutesy sound. Harmonies are so conventional and worn out... I wish she would try some other chords besides her diatonic ones or use some more passing modulations. I can't stand the cuteness of Vanessa's music anymore.. It sounds too much like music for kids or something.
I agree. That's why I've learned most of her songs by ear and didn't bother printing out all of the sheet music. [Well, at least it saved me money and limits on my CopiServ card.] I can't tell you how many songs that I've learned most of by ear b/c of the repetative chords. To make it sound not so boring, I have to throw in variations. As a result, I don't really play any of Van's songs exactly like her [not that I have a problem with that, but anyway...]. Moreover, V also tends to have certain keys that she plays in.
No only do Van's simple, repetative melodies are repetative and simple, her lyrics and vocal hooks are, too. Private Radio [especially the live version in the new lyrics in the bridge], Annie, Twilight, Pretty Baby, She Floats, Papa, ATM, Rinse, All I Ask, and many others have juvenille lyrics and vocal hooks. Her live version of 'The Star Spangled Banner' is defenitely No. 1 on the list; it sounds more like a 7-year-old singing than an adult. She could've sang it better than that. I've heard her do BETTER than that. Bottom line, her voice is more capable than that; I've heard it with my own ears. Many of her songs sound like something a child would write and compose. That's why I prefer learning Alicia Keys' stuff better; it's more challenging and mature and the chords and piano riffs are a little more spontaneous. It's great to be in touch with your inner child, but it comes a time to grow up, no offense.
Elicia
k.. so apparently you don't even like her. so 1. why are you here. 2. why is your handle based on music you don't like very much.
:roll:
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I'm not a huge fan of the song. It's pretty, but it doesn't overly appeal to me. *shrugs*
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I dont think a child could be able to write a song about s3x :roll:
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I dont think a child could be able to write a song about s3x :roll:
hehe ... well, NOWADAYS ...
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k.. so apparently you don't even like her. so 1. why are you here. 2. why is your handle based on music you don't like very much.
:roll:
Don't get me wrong, I DO like V... note that I said 'juvenille' instead of 'immature', which is in a way a good thing. I guess Van's writing/singing/piano playing style is juvie. If I didn't like her, I wouldn't be listening to her music. I did think the piano in HAT was rather predictable, sounding more like a movie theme than a pop/Indie song. I guess it's Van's classical roots showing through.
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finally someone who understands what I think :) I love vanessa or else why would I be here? This is just my opinion and as a fan I am not obligated to like every song she sings.
Maybe vanessa could benefit from a more formal study of songwriting... with a classical background i think it wouldn't be difficult for her, but if she has to rely on her "hit or miss" songwriting skills at the moment, then i don't she will go very far. She has a talent for songwriting but just relying on probing her way blindlessly through the art of songwriting herself will ultimately cost her her career. I think one of the best ways she could learn is if she stopped being an isolated, headstrong artist and would engage in more co-writing with renowned composers.
If she's making mistakes and she learns from herself, she's bound to make the same mistakes again.
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finally someone who understands what I think :) I love vanessa or else why would I be here? This is just my opinion and as a fan I am not obligated to like every song she sings.
Maybe vanessa could benefit from a more formal study of songwriting... with a classical background i think it wouldn't be difficult for her, but if she has to rely on her "hit or miss" songwriting skills at the moment, then i don't she will go very far. She has a talent for songwriting but just relying on probing her way blindlessly through the art of songwriting herself will ultimately cost her her career. I think one of the best ways she could learn is if she stopped being an isolated, headstrong artist and would engage in more co-writing with renowned composers.
If she's making mistakes and she learns from herself, she's bound to make the same mistakes again.
Co-writing you say.... kind of like what she is ALREADY doing with Linda Perry and SJ :roll:
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finally someone who understands what I think :) I love vanessa or else why would I be here? This is just my opinion and as a fan I am not obligated to like every song she sings.
Maybe vanessa could benefit from a more formal study of songwriting... with a classical background i think it wouldn't be difficult for her, but if she has to rely on her "hit or miss" songwriting skills at the moment, then i don't she will go very far. She has a talent for songwriting but just relying on probing her way blindlessly through the art of songwriting herself will ultimately cost her her career. I think one of the best ways she could learn is if she stopped being an isolated, headstrong artist and would engage in more co-writing with renowned composers.
If she's making mistakes and she learns from herself, she's bound to make the same mistakes again.
edit: sorry 'bout the double post
And the only mistake of Harmonium is that hardly anyone knew about it...and it seems that people loved the songwriting on BNN.... Of course V could and will get better at this but she does take this very seriously and I don't think she is anywhere close to "probing through the art of songwriting blindlessly" but you can think and say whatever you want. I don't think you are trying to criticize but unfortunately it came out that way. :?
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i just don't understand why, if vanessa's piano is boring and juvenile and you have to spice it up and do it better than her, she has a record deal and you guys don't.
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finally someone who understands what I think :) I love vanessa or else why would I be here? This is just my opinion and as a fan I am not obligated to like every song she sings.
you're not criticizing one song. or even every song. you're criticizing her as an artist.
Maybe vanessa could benefit from a more formal study of songwriting... with a classical background i think it wouldn't be difficult for her, but if she has to rely on her "hit or miss" songwriting skills at the moment, then i don't she will go very far.
cuz she hasn't gone far enough already? hit or miss? the fact that harmonium didn't go commercially far, is not her fault. it's her label's fault.
She has a talent for songwriting but just relying on probing her way blindlessly through the art of songwriting herself will ultimately cost her her career.
i'm glad we've got the expert on first-hand experience with record deals to give her advice. glad it's gotten you so far.
I think one of the best ways she could learn is if she stopped being an isolated, headstrong artist and would engage in more co-writing with renowned composers.
headstrong? how the fuck is she headstrong? all she ever did was make music that she loves, and the rest of us love. if staying true to who you are as an artist makes you headstrong and isolated, then by all means, she can be as headstrong as she likes.
If she's making mistakes and she learns from herself, she's bound to make the same mistakes again.
this just plain doesn't make sense. if she's learning from her mistakes, then she won't make them again. i have no idea what you're trying to say, but maybe you should just stop talking now, and quit while you're not too far behind.
and PYHOM101 and nat, rock on.
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Yes, a lot of V songs are repetitive which makes it easier for someone like me to learn- I've never been formally taught. But I think part of what makes her music so clever is that it is usually quite simple, but still sounds really nice. I'm sure she can play a lot of more complicated things, but it's a little harder to compose songs that complex (in my opinion). Or maybe it's just her personal choice!
You don't need to act superior though, like you are better than her- as if you are tiring of her- haughty much?
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A song doesn't have to be difficult in order to be great. Almost all great pop songs are simple. It's about MELODY.
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A song doesn't have to be difficult in order to be great. Almost all great pop songs are simple. It's about MELODY.
I second this :wink: just like A thousand miles.. in my opinion the lyrics isn't really great.. but the piano riff is 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O amazing!.. most of my friends know her as the "ATM girl" and they are like.. mhm.. what's her name ? :twisted:
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i just don't understand why, if vanessa's piano is boring and juvenile and you have to spice it up and do it better than her, she has a record deal and you guys don't.
I'm working on a record deal, FYI. I'm thinking about sending my demo to David Foster, who I love to death. He's a very talented producer who's one of the music industry's biggest giants. I KNOW for sure he's gonna be impressed with me b/c his style is similar, except the stuff he composes is more complex and spontaneous, which is why he's been so successful all these years. I wouldn't describe him as 'famous', but he is well-known and his resume of the great artists he's worked with over the years is pretty impressive [AND long]. But if he rejects it, then I'll understand. Just meeting the man would be good enough for me. If you want advice about how to survive in the mainstream world of pop music, then he's the man that could tell you nothing wrong, b/c he's been in the music biz for 35-40 years. He definitely makes a lot sense to me. Maybe V should consult with him and recieve constructive critisism from him, trust me, we'll all see improvement w/ her career [like jsbachsonata was saying]. But I guess she has too much pride for that.
Anyway, about Van, the problem is that most of her songs have a certain meter to them [except a few, like Papa]. There's the intro [sometimes], 1st verse, chorus, 2nd verse, chorus, bridge and/or instrumental break, then the chorus once or twice, then the ending. I guess it's the way it goes in popular music. It's nice that Van likes being different and being herself, but it's not gonna work, much less win you a Grammy in the cruel, bigshot mainstream popular world. If there's one thing I've learned is that to get along in life, you have to establish balance and learn to compromise. Don't mess all over everyone, but don't let yourself go lacking at the same time. Just look at Alicia Keys [who I'm also a big fan of; her new LP just ain't comin' out fast enough for me], who's won [I forgot how many] Grammys. She co-writes and produces w/ her producer/bf Krucial Keys, a few friends and others, but she also writes some of her stuff by herself, but it doesn't take away from how talented she truly is, or from the fact that she can just sit down and just sing and play and be just as entertaining to watch.
I don't whine about how 'unpopular' Van is; I have no problem with that. For starters, it has to be 'written in the stars' or your destiny to be a mainstream artist. V complains about how mizundastood she, her music, musciainship, and artistry is by the record execs, and how cutthroat the music industry is, but that's ALWAYS how it's been, and that's never gonna change any way you work it. Moreover, she brings it on herself by not doing anything about it by making her stuff more commercial [if if weren't for Ron Fair and the other producers, her sound and songs wouldn't've improved]. V's debut is more mainstream, but her sophmore is more Indie and Indie-sounding to me. I'm not suggesting V compromise and sell out like all the other kooky female singers/actresses out there, but she does need to stretch herself out some if she wants to stick out more. But on the other hand, classy artists, no matter how talented they are, will be in the minority most of the time [a la Leann Rimes and Josh Groban, a coupla of the best, not to mention my favorite, vocalists of all time]. It's not fair that these people don't get as much recognition for their talent as many of the lesser-talented more popular mainstream artists, but that's the way it is. It takes a lot to impress the music industry, much more the general public.
I know no one's perfect, but I heard V on 'Nice to Meet You; the Making of Harmonium' slightly boast about how good her sophmore was. That may have been true to her fans, but what may be good to YOU may not be to someone else. When I first bought the record back in 1/05, I didn't really like most of the songs up there, but after 3 weeks [around the time I took it back to Wal-Mart b/c I needed the $$$], I loved every song up there.
Elicia
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i just don't understand why, if vanessa's piano is boring and juvenile and you have to spice it up and do it better than her, she has a record deal and you guys don't.
I'm working on a record deal, FYI. I'm thinking about sending my demo to David Foster, who I love to death. He's a very talented producer who's one of the music industry's biggest giants. I KNOW for sure he's gonna be impressed with me b/c his style is similar, except the stuff he composes is more complex and spontaneous, which is why he's been so successful all these years. I wouldn't describe him as 'famous', but he is well-known and his resume of the great artists he's worked with over the years is pretty impressive [AND long]. But if he rejects it, then I'll understand. Just meeting the man would be good enough for me. If you want advice about how to survive in the mainstream world of pop music, then he's the man that could tell you nothing wrong, b/c he's been in the music biz for 35-40 years. He definitely makes a lot sense to me. Maybe V should consult with him and recieve constructive critisism from him, trust me, we'll all see improvement w/ her career [like jsbachsonata was saying]. But I guess she has too much pride for that.
Anyway, about Van, the problem is that most of her songs have a certain meter to them [except a few, like Papa]. There's the intro [sometimes], 1st verse, chorus, 2nd verse, chorus, bridge and/or instrumental break, then the chorus once or twice, then the ending. I guess it's the way it goes in popular music. It's nice that Van likes being different and being herself, but it's not gonna work, much less win you a Grammy in the cruel, bigshot mainstream popular world. If there's one thing I've learned is that to get along in life, you have to establish balance and learn to compromise. Don't mess all over everyone, but don't let yourself go lacking at the same time. Just look at Alicia Keys [who I'm also a big fan of; her new LP just ain't comin' out fast enough for me], who's won [I forgot how many] Grammys. She co-writes and produces w/ her producer/bf Krucial Keys, a few friends and others, but she also writes some of her stuff by herself, but it doesn't take away from how talented she truly is, or from the fact that she can just sit down and just sing and play and be just as entertaining to watch.
I don't whine about how 'unpopular' Van is; I have no problem with that. For starters, it has to be 'written in the stars' or your destiny to be a mainstream artist. V complains about how mizundastood she, her music, musciainship, and artistry is by the record execs, and how cutthroat the music industry is, but that's ALWAYS how it's been, and that's never gonna change any way you work it. Moreover, she brings it on herself by not doing anything about it by making her stuff more commercial [if if weren't for Ron Fair and the other producers, her sound and songs wouldn't've improved]. V's debut is more mainstream, but her sophmore is more Indie and Indie-sounding to me. I'm not suggesting V compromise and sell out like all the other kooky female singers/actresses out there, but she does need to stretch herself out some if she wants to stick out more. But on the other hand, classy artists, no matter how talented they are, will be in the minority most of the time [a la Leann Rimes and Josh Groban, a coupla of the best, not to mention my favorite, vocalists of all time]. It's not fair that these people don't get as much recognition for their talent as many of the lesser-talented more popular mainstream artists, but that's the way it is. It takes a lot to impress the music industry, much more the general public.
I know no one's perfect, but I heard V on 'Nice to Meet You; the Making of Harmonium' slightly boast about how good her sophmore was. That may have been true to her fans, but what may be good to YOU may not be to someone else. When I first bought the record back in 1/05, I didn't really like most of the songs up there, but after 3 weeks [around the time I took it back to Wal-Mart b/c I needed the $$$], I loved every song up there.
Elicia
Alicia Keys has been in the music industry long enough to establish herself but because Harmonium got very minimal promotion V hasn't had the chance yet. The last time V said anything negative about the music industry she also said something like "that's just the way it goes sometimes... welcome to the music business" so I wouldn't call her a complainer....I have no problem with you stating that it may help V if she stretches herself a little but you are just cutting her down as an artist and making her sound like she doesn't know anything about the music biz.... not cool :(
Really, I think V has tapped into her real talent. You said Heroes and Thieves was boring and predictable but I think it's classic... I can feel her emotion pouring through the song. Seriously, it almost makes me tear up.
Like Sammie said, all she ever wanted to do was make music that she loved and I don't know about you but I'll always be listening to the sometimes beautifully simple but hardly boring songs that she'll make :D
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i just don't understand why, if vanessa's piano is boring and juvenile and you have to spice it up and do it better than her, she has a record deal and you guys don't.
What a piss poor argument. That's like saying- "You say George Bush is a bad president, but you're not president so that means he must be right".
Why do you have to jump down everyone's throats who even thinks to critically assess Vanessa's work? It's not a personal insult to her or to you- grow up a bit and learn that criticism is a key part of life.
I completely agree that her songwriting style is very simple lately- to me it sounds less and less complex and the songs are getting more and more like nursery rhymes. That's not to say i don't find them pleasant songs- but i don't think there's any particular genius behind them like i did with BnN.
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i just don't understand why, if vanessa's piano is boring and juvenile and you have to spice it up and do it better than her, she has a record deal and you guys don't.
she's got 2 albums.. and they dont :razz:
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she's got 2 albums.. and they dont :razz:
Well, that's a slightly stronger argument. I mean, it doesn't require a deal to make an album. 8)
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i'd say that that's a weaker arguement, because it doesn't take a deal to make an album. anybody can make an album with the time and money, but to get a deal is more difficult and rare.
but i'm so tired of this; vanessa's going to make whatever music she wants to make regardless of if one of the people on this board thinks it's too simple or not, and you can either listen to the music or not. get over yourselves.
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i'd say that that's a weaker arguement, because it doesn't take a deal to make an album. anybody can make an album with the time and money, but to get a deal is more difficult and rare.
but i'm so tired of this; vanessa's going to make whatever music she wants to make regardless of if one of the people on this board thinks it's too simple or not, and you can either listen to the music or not. get over yourselves.
Agreed.... also V said in that mtv interview that she is sitting on the best batch of songs she's ever written so I think that counts for something...
The album is going to come out and it WILL be good :D
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i'd say that that's a weaker arguement, because it doesn't take a deal to make an album. anybody can make an album with the time and money, but to get a deal is more difficult and rare.
but i'm so tired of this; vanessa's going to make whatever music she wants to make regardless of if one of the people on this board thinks it's too simple or not, and you can either listen to the music or not. get over yourselves.
Lmao. The idiocy astounds me. Yes of COURSE it's not going to make a blind bit of difference what we say- that is completely beside the point. The point is that this is a DISCUSSION forum where you DISCUSS Vanessa's music etc. That is exactly what we're doing.
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there's a difference between critically assessing something and being haughty.
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It seemed to me that they were not just critically assessing her, they were acting as though they were superior. It's one thing to say, "Well, I think she could improve on this and maybe throw in some of this", but they act like V is a snob (when they are the ones acting snobbish), and suggest that their own work is better.
Vanessa has a style, and the quality of each song varies in my opinion - with some definite stand outs, and then some that I don't find so good. But I think it's hard to come out with gold each go 'round. Still, I think even her mediocre work is better than most of the shat on the radio today.
"It's great to be in touch with your inner child, but it comes a time to grow up, no offense. " - Vanessa Piana
"I think one of the best ways she could learn is if she stopped being an isolated, headstrong artist and would engage in more co-writing with renowned composers. " - That other guy with the random name...
^^ That goes beyond a humble critique I would say
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there's a difference between critically assessing something and being haughty.
what a perfect word to describe their "critiques"
adjective, he is both haughty and disdainful
proud, arrogant, vain, conceited, snobbish, superior, self-important, pompous, supercilious, condescending, patronizing; scornful, contemptuous, disdainful; full of oneself, above oneself; informal stuck-up, snooty, hoity-toity, uppity, uppish, big-headed, high and mighty, la-di-da. antonym humble
Vanessa Piana, what on earth makes you think you know better? Remind me NOT to buy your music.. I doubt your kinda attitude will get you far musically. Who are you to define what music should sound like? Vanessa's music sounds more mature with each new release, I have no idea where you're coming from. Figure out a way to rephrase and censor yourself, people here don't care for your banter.
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hey thanks for the comments. I respect every one of your comments and I know music is an extremely subjective kind of art... It's always great for people to like OR dislike music. Even today, the greatest classical composer Mozart is not universally liked. Just please refrain from ad hominem attacks on members. This is a discussion on Vanessa and I think we would benefit just keeping our discussion on her.
I do not have a record deal nor am I a singer-songwriter but as a classical and jazz composer, I am entitled to music critique. Anyways critique does not need to be backed by credentials. Who cares if I am a classical/jazz composer! Music is music and anyone who has an ear is entitled to voice his opinion. I respect all of you for voicing your opinions. That is the beauty of music.
As for saying that I am talking about vanessa in a disparaging tone by putting myself on a higher level than hers... well, all i have to say is that I do not believe that I am making myself superior when I criticize a musician. I am a musician myself and criticism is what I survive on. People always tell me how I could improve and in the same way, I am just putting out my take of areas where Vanessa could improve.
Music is like an English paper. You can always find places for improvement. You can take an English paper and tell the writer that nothing is wrong but you also know they could benefit from some advice. It is just the same thing. Being a music analyzer is totally different from being the performer. I can analyze the perfomance of an orchestra or literature, but I cannot be the orchestra or publish a book that will be deemed literature in the future. The fact that I cannot "be" the works I analyze does not make my comments trash.
I also have to say that your treatment of Vanessa Piana is quite unfair. I find it quite sad that someone who obviously is a fan of vanessa's cannot express their dislike in certain parts of her music. By saying that Vanessa Piana does not deserve to be supported as an artist on this board and that everyone should *boycott* her music in the future is something that does not pertain to vanessa's music. Again these ad hominem attacks are quite harmful.
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hey thanks for the comments. I respect every one of your comments and I know music is an extremely subjective kind of art... It's always great for people to like OR dislike music. Even today, the greatest classical composer Mozart is not universally liked. Just please refrain from ad hominem attacks on members. This is a discussion on Vanessa and I think we would benefit just keeping our discussion on her.
I do not have a record deal nor am I a singer-songwriter but as a classical and jazz composer, I am entitled to music critique. Anyways critique does not need to be backed by credentials. Who cares if I am a classical/jazz composer! Music is music and anyone who has an ear is entitled to voice his opinion. I respect all of you for voicing your opinions. That is the beauty of music.
As for saying that I am talking about vanessa in a disparaging tone by putting myself on a higher level than hers... well, all i have to say is that I do not believe that I am making myself superior when I criticize a musician. I am a musician myself and criticism is what I survive on. People always tell me how I could improve and in the same way, I am just putting out my take of areas where Vanessa could improve.
Music is like an English paper. You can always find places for improvement. You can take an English paper and tell the writer that nothing is wrong but you also know they could benefit from some advice. It is just the same thing. Being a music analyzer is totally different from being the performer. I can analyze the perfomance of an orchestra or literature, but I cannot be the orchestra or publish a book that will be deemed literature in the future. The fact that I cannot "be" the works I analyze does not make my comments trash.
I also have to say that your treatment of Vanessa Piana is quite unfair. I find it quite sad that someone who obviously is a fan of vanessa's cannot express their dislike in certain parts of her music. By saying that Vanessa Piana does not deserve to be supported as an artist on this board and that everyone should *boycott* her music in the future is something that does not pertain to vanessa's music. Again these ad hominem attacks are quite harmful.
Only one person said they wouldn't buy Vanessa Piana's music... I never said I wouldn't. Also I have NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER with people critically assessing Vanessa's work but some of the comments that were made were extremely harsh.... things like "she sounds like a 7-year-old" and "she's probing through the art of songwriting blindly" makes the rest of us at the board wonder why Vanessa Piana is here... if he/she is a fan then good they belong on these boards... it's just that comments that cut down V, her entire career, and everything she's about musically don't go over well with the rest of us :roll:
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she's got 2 albums.. and they dont :razz:
Well, that's a slightly stronger argument. I mean, it doesn't require a deal to make an album. 8)
i'd say that that's a weaker arguement, because it doesn't take a deal to make an album. anybody can make an album with the time and money, but to get a deal is more difficult and rare.
but i'm so tired of this; vanessa's going to make whatever music she wants to make regardless of if one of the people on this board thinks it's too simple or not, and you can either listen to the music or not. get over yourselves.
What I mean is that she has the albums, so they can stand as proof. Not just because they're albums but because of what's on them. If someone thinks they're better than Vanessa Carlton, they just need to make an album (and not necessarily get a record deal) and then we can all be the judge. Just having a deal doesn't mean anything, because there's a lot of crap out there with a major label on it.
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she's got 2 albums.. and they dont :razz:
Well, that's a slightly stronger argument. I mean, it doesn't require a deal to make an album. 8)
i'd say that that's a weaker arguement, because it doesn't take a deal to make an album. anybody can make an album with the time and money, but to get a deal is more difficult and rare.
but i'm so tired of this; vanessa's going to make whatever music she wants to make regardless of if one of the people on this board thinks it's too simple or not, and you can either listen to the music or not. get over yourselves.
What I mean is that she has the albums, so they can stand as proof. Not just because they're albums but because of what's on them. If someone thinks they're better than Vanessa Carlton, they just need to make an album (and not necessarily get a record deal) and then we can all be the judge. Just having a deal doesn't mean anything, because there's a lot of crap out there with a major label on it.
gotcha. :)
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she's got 2 albums.. and they dont :razz:
Well, that's a slightly stronger argument. I mean, it doesn't require a deal to make an album. 8)
i'd say that that's a weaker arguement, because it doesn't take a deal to make an album. anybody can make an album with the time and money, but to get a deal is more difficult and rare.
but i'm so tired of this; vanessa's going to make whatever music she wants to make regardless of if one of the people on this board thinks it's too simple or not, and you can either listen to the music or not. get over yourselves.
What I mean is that she has the albums, so they can stand as proof. Not just because they're albums but because of what's on them. If someone thinks they're better than Vanessa Carlton, they just need to make an album (and not necessarily get a record deal) and then we can all be the judge. Just having a deal doesn't mean anything, because there's a lot of crap out there with a major label on it.
^Exactly^ I wouldn't need a deal to record demo tracks.. unless I'd want to be super famous..
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hey thanks for the comments. I respect every one of your comments and I know music is an extremely subjective kind of art... It's always great for people to like OR dislike music. Even today, the greatest classical composer Mozart is not universally liked. Just please refrain from ad hominem attacks on members. This is a discussion on Vanessa and I think we would benefit just keeping our discussion on her.
I do not have a record deal nor am I a singer-songwriter but as a classical and jazz composer, I am entitled to music critique. Anyways critique does not need to be backed by credentials. Who cares if I am a classical/jazz composer! Music is music and anyone who has an ear is entitled to voice his opinion. I respect all of you for voicing your opinions. That is the beauty of music.
As for saying that I am talking about vanessa in a disparaging tone by putting myself on a higher level than hers... well, all i have to say is that I do not believe that I am making myself superior when I criticize a musician. I am a musician myself and criticism is what I survive on. People always tell me how I could improve and in the same way, I am just putting out my take of areas where Vanessa could improve.
Music is like an English paper. You can always find places for improvement. You can take an English paper and tell the writer that nothing is wrong but you also know they could benefit from some advice. It is just the same thing. Being a music analyzer is totally different from being the performer. I can analyze the perfomance of an orchestra or literature, but I cannot be the orchestra or publish a book that will be deemed literature in the future. The fact that I cannot "be" the works I analyze does not make my comments trash.
I also have to say that your treatment of Vanessa Piana is quite unfair. I find it quite sad that someone who obviously is a fan of vanessa's cannot express their dislike in certain parts of her music. By saying that Vanessa Piana does not deserve to be supported as an artist on this board and that everyone should *boycott* her music in the future is something that does not pertain to vanessa's music. Again these ad hominem attacks are quite harmful.
See, I know everyone is just trying to express themselves but sometimes people, maybe by accident, make it sound like what they think is fact. That's why it's upsetting. For instance, you've done it in this message...
Even today, the greatest classical composer Mozart is not universally liked.
Why is he the greatest composer? In my oh so humble opinion, Beethoven is the greatest composer... People should stop being so matter of fact when they express themselves, especially when they're critiquing V on her fansite.
well, all i have to say is that I do not believe that I am making myself superior when I criticize a musician. I am a musician myself and criticism is what I survive on.
Understood. But you should expect that when come across the way you do that her biggest fans are gonna jump down your throat. In a way, when you insult her music... and that's what's going on here... you insult her fans (or maybe just me). She's been my favorite artist for a good four or five years now and her music's a huge part of who I am, especially my own music. The 7yo comment was particularly bashing.
By saying that Vanessa Piana does not deserve to be supported as an artist on this board and that everyone should *boycott* her music in the future is something that does not pertain to vanessa's music.
Ironically, Vanessa Piana brought her own music into question when she used it to justify/support her outlandish claims... basically juxtaposing her work with vanessa's. So I don't feel that a comment about her music was out of line. And please, when I or anybody else makes a statement, we don't represent the entire forum so don't extrapolate my comment about *boycotting* vanessa piana's music. All I was saying was that I personally doubt that I would like his/her music based on his/her attitude towards the art in general. Those comments were frustrating.. hence: "remind me not to buy." because whie this discussion is a little rediculous, it's not gonna matter in a minute's time.
I don't if I'm any sense. very exhausted. but yea.
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^ i agree with tim
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I'm working on a record deal, FYI. I'm thinking about sending my demo to David Foster, who I love to death. He's a very talented producer who's one of the music industry's biggest giants. I KNOW for sure he's gonna be impressed with me b/c his style is similar, except the stuff he composes is more complex and spontaneous, which is why he's been so successful all these years. I wouldn't describe him as 'famous', but he is well-known and his resume of the great artists he's worked with over the years is pretty impressive [AND long]. But if he rejects it, then I'll understand. Just meeting the man would be good enough for me. If you want advice about how to survive in the mainstream world of pop music, then he's the man that could tell you nothing wrong, b/c he's been in the music biz for 35-40 years. He definitely makes a lot sense to me. Maybe V should consult with him and recieve constructive critisism from him, trust me, we'll all see improvement w/ her career [like jsbachsonata was saying]. But I guess she has too much pride for that.
Elicia
I'm sort of baffled as to why you feel Vanessa has too much pride; it's as if you're being prejudicial. How do you know she hasn't spoken to David Foster, or any of hundreds of other knowledgeable people in the business, and that she has not done so out of pride?
Why is it only David Foster that can turn things around for her and not, say, John Shanks?
If you have a demo good enough to send to David Foster....hey, turn us all on to it!
Dan/NS
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Even today, the greatest classical composer Mozart is not universally liked.
Why is he the greatest composer? In my oh so humble opinion, Beethoven is the greatest composer... People should stop being so matter of fact when they express themselves, especially when they're critiquing V on her fansite.
He was probably referring to the fact that Mozart was a child prodigy, and could hear whole symphonies in his head. But that doesn't mean much in terms of their end products. Beethoven is excellent of course, too! I like both of them and wouldn't say one is better than the other.
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who cares.. the point is that opinion is opinion, and it shouldn't be stated as anything but.
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^^ my cousin is 20 and goes to salisbury. is that where you go?
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i used to.. the location's outdated. i'm back at home. that's cool though. i wonder if i know them.. probably not, but it's possible.
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I'm sort of baffled as to why you feel Vanessa has too much pride; it's as if you're being prejudicial. How do you know she hasn't spoken to David Foster, or any of hundreds of other knowledgeable people in the business, and that she has not done so out of pride?
Why is it only David Foster that can turn things around for her and not, say, John Shanks?
If you have a demo good enough to send to David Foster....hey, turn us all on to it!
Dan/NS
I'm not saying [at all] that David Foster is the only one who can give the 'young'uns' in the music industry some great advice about how to be a ubersucess and winning a Grammy [a la Alicia Keys, P. Diddy, Jay-Z, and others]. He's made mistakes throughout his career. There's many artists and legends who have been around for a long time who know how to make it in the harsh, cold world called the music biz; many could have more or less a different or similar take on how they made it b/c different things work for different people. No matter how good the artist is, none of them are perfect and could use constructive critisism every and anon from a good reliable place. Other times, they just get critisism from their own mistakes, which is through trial and error.
I did get carried away the other night b/c I had just watched one of David Foster's concerts on YouTube.com from 1994, and he did an amazing job; he was like fire and the stuff he composes now don't really do him justice. I guess I was still wound up w/ adrenaline from watching the thing. And no, I don't think I'm better than V; I'm getting better @ my craft, but I still have a long way to go, so there's plenty of room for growth. [I'm here to set the record straight so that no one else puts words in my mouth.] Everyone get's full of themselves every now and then; I'm only human. It's just that my interpretation of her piano stuff is different, which it very well should be. I never play the songs exactly like the artist, even if I had the exact arrangement. Sometimes I add some notes [which sometimes go along with the vocal] to the songs b/c I'm not a singer and want the song to have more depth, but I don't want to overdo it b/c it'll sound corny. In ATM, in some areas, the piano riffs and rhythm are the same, but the chords are different, but I can still play along to the song on BNN. It would make her proud.
And how can anyone 'boycott' my stuff when I've never put it up here to start with? I would love to and want to more than anything, but I don't have any earthly idea how to do it.
Elicia
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Later im putting a vid on youtube of my cover of heroes and thieves hehe
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Oh cool :D
Will you be singing on it too?
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I just learned that song, and the beginning riff is the only fun part of the whole song to play. Kinda disappointing. It sounds good, but when you get down and learn it, it's really simplistic, almost too simplistic - and I like simple usually.