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Other Topics => Completely Off-Topic => Topic started by: nutnlp on October 07, 2008, 06:36:08 am

Title: protect marriage?
Post by: nutnlp on October 07, 2008, 06:36:08 am
i just heard a psa for the "protect marriage" prop on the radio and that is just horrible. it's a very tricky message they are sending? protect marriage? they are doing everything BUT protecting marriage. gays/lesbians should be able to marry just like anyone else...they serve their country, they pay taxes, etc....sad sad sad world.

if there is ever a draft i will NOT back a country that doesn't allow me to be myself and that does not support equality for all.

fuckkkkk i am fired up about this. how is gay/lesbian/transgender marriage going to effect the hill billy white family from louisana? it's NOT! you won't be invited to the wedding, you won't even know it's going on! These people are evil and I can't believe they could stand up for something so pointless and wrong in these times. Be yourself. I'm pro-equality which ever fucking canidate that is...and if your not for equality than fuck you.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: zurielshimon on October 07, 2008, 09:36:56 am
Don't get mad about it, or you may be denying someone else their right to be themselves. :D
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: nutnlp on October 07, 2008, 10:08:58 am
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
Don't get mad about it, or you may be denying someone else their right to be themselves. :D


I don't get what you said.  I tried to make sense of it but found it impossible.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: zurielshimon on October 07, 2008, 10:27:20 am
Quote from: "nutnlp"
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
Don't get mad about it, or you may be denying someone else their right to be themselves. :D


I don't get what you said.  I tried to make sense of it but found it impossible.


Ok. :D
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: nutnlp on October 07, 2008, 11:48:23 am
Well...I guess you didn't want to elaborate.

People are evil if they want to deny two people(who they do NOT know) their love and acceptance just like everyone else...equality is a huge issue and I cannot believe we are still dealing with this today.  I can't believe it is still an issue....Why would anyone be against it anyway?  Because something some story book says? Psssh. You don't like or support gay marriage?  Well then fine, don't marry into the same safe....simple as that.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: iluvvanessa on October 07, 2008, 07:38:42 pm
people love who they love, why deny them of that, its ridiculous, i was raised in an area where there are a lot of gays, lesbians, trans genders, and straight people, which really affects me because i know a lot of people who have, or will be denied their love it propositions such as these get passed to take away their marriage.

here in california gay marriage has been approved and is now "legal" but now the church is trying to take that away after 1,000's of people have been wed.

"Oh I'm sorry a new law has been passed and you and your partner are no longer married"

that would be terrible.

fuck these people who try to take away love from other people...

"Who's to say, that this is not our love?"
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: zurielshimon on October 07, 2008, 09:23:39 pm
I'm not going to tell anyone what to do with their own lives, but just don't try to force your opinions on me.  That's who I am, and if I can't be that, then we have a problem. :D
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: MeganJane on October 07, 2008, 09:35:03 pm
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
I'm not going to tell anyone what to do with their own lives, but just don't try to force your opinions on me.  That's who I am, and if I can't be that, then we have a problem. :D


Do you mean you are against same sex marriage (I'm a bit confused by this thread as I don't know what the "protect marriage" thing is....)? What is your opinion?

I don't know what "protect marriage" would mean because so many straight couples get divorced...
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: zurielshimon on October 07, 2008, 10:01:36 pm
Quote from: "MeganJane"
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
I'm not going to tell anyone what to do with their own lives, but just don't try to force your opinions on me.  That's who I am, and if I can't be that, then we have a problem. :D


Do you mean you are against same sex marriage (I'm a bit confused by this thread as I don't know what the "protect marriage" thing is....)? What is your opinion?

I don't know what "protect marriage" would mean because so many straight couples get divorced...


I think what people usually mean by protecting marriage is keeping it between a man and a woman.

Let me explain my position on the matter.  I do not personally intend to take any action against same-sex marriages.  I do not intend to ever be involved in one.  But please don't ask me to recognize one because it really doesn't make any more difference whether or not I recognize one marriage than it does another.

For example:  There are two men in a second-floor apartment just west of downtown Boston who have been living together for eight years, and now they just got married in a legal ceremony this summer.  There is a man and a woman who have been married for over twenty years living in a white vinyl-siding house on W. Maple St. in Livonia, Mich.

Doesn't either one of those marriages make any difference to me, and neither couple should care whether I think their marriage is right or wrong.  What I believe would be wrong would be for either of them to try to ram their opinion into my ear as if it would make me a better person for agreeing with them.  The couple from Michigan probably wouldn't do that, but that couple in Boston are a vocal pair.

My point is that other people are free to do as it pleases them.  I'm not going to stop them, but they shouldn't count on my approval because they don't need it.

On the other hand, the people who are against same-sex marriage have just as much right to speak their opinions and to be heard as anyone else.  This is America, and that's how it works.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: amberbeads on October 08, 2008, 07:44:55 am
protecting marriage makes it seem as if marriage as an institution is a sacred, special bond.
which it used to be.
but as long as the church can pretend like Britney Spears' 54-hour marriage never existed cause it was a drunk mistake (read: annulment), then that doesn't sound very holy to me. I'd like to think marriage is sacred, but if you're going to corrupt the general definition in some areas you may as well rewrite the whole thing.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: zurielshimon on October 08, 2008, 08:22:55 am
Quote from: "amberbeads"
protecting marriage makes it seem as if marriage as an institution is a sacred, special bond.
which it used to be.
but as long as the church can pretend like Britney Spears' 54-hour marriage never existed cause it was a drunk mistake (read: annulment), then that doesn't sound very holy to me. I'd like to think marriage is sacred, but if you're going to corrupt the general definition in some areas you may as well rewrite the whole thing.


I can understand what you're saying.  The problem is that it's not fair to try to rewrite it for everybody, because it is still sacred to a number of people.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: nutnlp on October 08, 2008, 08:25:29 am
zurielshimon-

i understand what your saying.

the couple in boston are more 'talkative' on the issue, they like to conversate and debate about it for the simple fact that it lacks equality.  if they had the right to marry they would not talk about it, because it wouldn't be an issue....

just like women gaining the right to vote back in the day.  you only heard about it because the fact that they COULD NOT vote was not fair in the terms of equality...now that they can, you don't see any props trying to take that away from them...

I think if 20 percent of your state got to pay 1.50 for a gallon of gas, and you had to pay 3.50 and drive on a different highway and still pay the same amount of taxes every year...  you'd be a bit more vocal too. ;)
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: nutnlp on October 08, 2008, 08:50:42 am
Quote
I can understand what you're saying.  The problem is that it's not fair to try to rewrite it for everybody, because it is still sacred to a number of people.


I see what your saying but it's not like they are trying to take marriage rights away from man/woman marriages...all they want is to be treated equal.  to be treated like human beings.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: MeganJane on October 08, 2008, 05:33:42 pm
Quote from: "nutnlp"
Quote
I can understand what you're saying.  The problem is that it's not fair to try to rewrite it for everybody, because it is still sacred to a number of people.


I see what your saying but it's not like they are trying to take marriage rights away from man/woman marriages...all they want is to be treated equal.  to be treated like human beings.


Yes. I don't really get the issue, it's like some people think that if gays can get married, then somehow their own straight marriage is no longer meaningful... really, marriage is meaningful because of the commitment between the couple, it doesn't become meaningful because of the marriage ceremony or the papers... your marriage doesn't become less meaningful because your sister got divorced or because someone got drunk, married and anulled in Vegas, or because the lesbians down the street got married. That shouldn't affect the sacredness of your bond. I get that some people don't understand gays... I cannot understand completely because I am straight... but I didn't choose that, I just turned out that way, just like I didn't choose my skin colour or the country in which I was born, so I don't want to judge others for something they did not choose.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: zurielshimon on October 08, 2008, 09:21:28 pm
My only real problem with any gay people are the people who do actually choose to be gay simply for the attention.  I'm willing to accept that's not most gay people, but some people are just that attention hungry that they will engage in that lifestyle (or any other lifestyle, for that matter) just so people will talk about them. :x

I have to wonder, though, if there are any gay couples teaching their children that homosexuality is wrong.   :?:
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: nutnlp on October 09, 2008, 06:59:01 am
Gay is NOT a choice.  And anybody who 'plays' gay for attention is a fucking idiot. *cough* Lindsay Lohan * cough*...but gay is not a choice....gays adopting kids, although I would not do it.....I think it's important that once the child turns a certain age explain to the child the differences between gay/straight and make sure that the child is not influenced by their relationship at all.  I don't think it's a good idea to teach your child that 'gay is wrong' but that it's not a choice and your just born that way....and to be him/herself.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: Emmyspiano on October 09, 2008, 11:12:35 am
I agree with alot being said here. I believe you are born gay. You may not fully know until you're older or you may know it all your life. I'm not fully sure if you can choose to be gay or not. With Lindsay Lohan, maybe she is doing it for attention or maybe trying something new out, I have no clue.

     "Protect Marriage"? Is this message saying we should keep it between a man and woman? That's ridiculous. As said before, men and women can't even stay together these days. The message should be directed towards that.

     I actually has a coversation similar to this with my boyfriend. He has no problem with a man and a man or woman and a woman being together but he does have a problem with them being married. I asked why and he responded "...because marriage is between a a man and woman...". So I told him to give me a difinition of marraige WITHOUT the words man and woman, and he said "to people sharing thier love with one another." And I said right! exactly! That's what marraige is, two people who love eachother. No matter what gender you are, you can feel love.

      There are teachers in my college as well as my old high school who were against homosexuals. Everytime they said something ridiculous I called them out. Even when people use the word 'gay' as a synonym for stupid. It's disrespectful. Seems as though alot of people have lost respect for humans.

     This was a rant and I apologize. I am very interested in human rights, and this subject is very important to me.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: nutnlp on October 09, 2008, 12:01:16 pm
Your rant was fine and I believe what you wrote 1000 percent....it's just crazy that these people will go so far out of their way to put a ban on gay marriage when at the end of the day it's not going to effect them at all.   I don't believe in marriage to begin with...why do you need the government to tell you your in love?  Especially with the way the economy is, who has extra money to plan a nice wedding anyhow?  But I do believe in equality for all humans...were all the same no matter what...and to those people who hate homosexuals obviously have some serious mental problems....the way there parents rasied them, etc. so sad.  A gay marriage is not going to effect Bill & Sues wedding...even if they lived next to eachother......rediculous.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: tylor2000 on October 09, 2008, 01:47:50 pm
The commercial they play here in California makes me want to support the ban...not becuase i'm against it...but because the people here in San Francisco really are like that!  The Mayor: "It's going to happen if you like it or not!"(supporting gay marriage rights) Being all loopy and arrogant.  Repeating himself over and over.  It's somewhat taken out of context but still.

The commercial has a good effect if you are trying to get people to support the constitutional admendment.  Very effective.

But alas I'll probably just leave it blank because I don't care either way.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: tylor2000 on October 09, 2008, 03:53:42 pm
I just wanted to say I don't have anything against the Mayor of San Francisco in general.  That commercial, though, speaks volumes about SF and some people's character.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: zurielshimon on October 09, 2008, 09:41:55 pm
If this is how people are going to try to define a marriage, then there needs to be a special word that describes only a union between a man and a woman that can in no context be used to describe two men or two women.  Not a phrase or a fabricated compound word, but one real word, something that only a man and a woman can be and no one else.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: MeganJane on October 10, 2008, 02:38:01 am
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
If this is how people are going to try to define a marriage, then there needs to be a special word that describes only a union between a man and a woman that can in no context be used to describe two men or two women.  Not a phrase or a fabricated compound word, but one real word, something that only a man and a woman can be and no one else.


...why?
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: nutnlp on October 10, 2008, 06:44:14 am
yeah that doesn't make sense.....they're not animals.  they're humans.

how about......."your marriage" & "my marriage"?

i really don't understand why there should be anything to determine the two.  maybe you have no gay family, but they are people just like you and i and they deserve to have the same rights as every 'straight' american in america.  who you sleep with at night should have nothing to do with your rights as a tax paying citizen.  i thought our country was so beyond this!!!!
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: zurielshimon on October 10, 2008, 10:02:20 am
See, this is the kind of reaction I shouldn't have to deal with. I've already stated my opinion on the matter. I think what I'm suggesting here is quite reasonable.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: nutnlp on October 10, 2008, 11:03:52 am
If the US would support equality for all, you wouldn't have to 'deal' with this.  Put yourself in someone elses shoes..
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: tylor2000 on October 10, 2008, 12:26:24 pm
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
If this is how people are going to try to define a marriage, then there needs to be a special word that describes only a union between a man and a woman that can in no context be used to describe two men or two women.  Not a phrase or a fabricated compound word, but one real word, something that only a man and a woman can be and no one else.


consummation

would that work?
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: tylor2000 on October 10, 2008, 01:02:10 pm
Jeesh, time to pull out the OLD Canon Law and comb through it to find an answer:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01178a.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_law

 :wink:
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: tylor2000 on October 10, 2008, 01:52:14 pm
And then there is always Mosaic Law...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2018;&version=31;

Not to mention Islamic Law......
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: MeganJane on October 10, 2008, 04:09:03 pm
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
See, this is the kind of reaction I shouldn't have to deal with. I've already stated my opinion on the matter. I think what I'm suggesting here is quite reasonable.


I asked why, I wasn't attacking you- simply asking why as I don't quite understand and wanted you to explain, but you don't explain, you just say "I've already stated my opinion on the matter. I think what I'm suggesting here is quite reasonable."... how can it be reasonable if you won't answer why you feel that way?

I didn't think nutnip was attacking you either in his/her reaction. He/she is allowed to state an opinion too.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: zurielshimon on October 11, 2008, 01:36:38 am
Quote from: "MeganJane"
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
See, this is the kind of reaction I shouldn't have to deal with. I've already stated my opinion on the matter. I think what I'm suggesting here is quite reasonable.


I asked why, I wasn't attacking you- simply asking why as I don't quite understand and wanted you to explain, but you don't explain, you just say "I've already stated my opinion on the matter. I think what I'm suggesting here is quite reasonable."... how can it be reasonable if you won't answer why you feel that way?

I didn't think nutnip was attacking you either in his/her reaction. He/she is allowed to state an opinion too.


My bad.  I was mad about something else when I was on here last.  Okay, here's the why:  There seems to be a lot of effort focused on trying to make gay people happy.  Now, I understand just as much as anyone else that you can't make everyone happy at any one time, but I don't think the people who are opposed to gay marriage, however slightly or greatly, should be denied happiness at that expense.

That said, let me clarify that I'm not out to defend the person who is hating just to be hating.  People with no good reason to be against something are a peeve to a conductive society.  But just as much as most gay people firmly believe that their lifestyle and pursuit of happiness is just as valid as anyone else's, there are those who firmly believe that it is not and have valid reasons to support their belief.  Who is anyone to simply, arrogantly, and ignorantly tell them they are unequivocally wrong to believe what they believe?  Isn't that denying them the same equality that we're trying to give to homosexuals?  Who is anyone in this world to decide which groups should be treated "more equal" than others?
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: nutnlp on October 12, 2008, 02:42:56 pm
gay marriage will not effect them.  the same way straight marriages don't effect gay couples.  just the simple fact that everyone should be treated equally is the only issue at hand.  if these people think gay marriage is going to effect their marriage, they are crazy...how in the world can one marriage effect the other???..besides like you said it's a bond between TWO people.  Not a band between a man & a woman.  

I don't like how America will sit and laugh there asses off to Will & Grace at night...but secretly be against it?  They're not aloud to pick & choose what they like from our culture and leave behind the burden of inequality.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: Manda on October 12, 2008, 04:46:59 pm
I don't want to get married, ever. People who do are beyond me...but anyway, if people want to get married they can, just not in a church. That's where I stand on that, the Catholic church doesn't want it and that is separate. If the church allows it...then I would as well. Weird, but thats just how I feel.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: nutnlp on October 12, 2008, 05:34:26 pm
Yes, I don't believe in marriage for myself as well...but I do think it's a right that every person should have in America.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: zurielshimon on October 12, 2008, 05:45:34 pm
Quote from: "nutnlp"
They're not aloud to pick & choose what they like from our culture and leave behind the burden of inequality.


They're allowed to do any damned thing they want. This is America, and that's how it works.   I'm not saying it's right, but it's the truth.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: nutnlp on October 13, 2008, 06:29:07 am
It is the truth.  Because obviously it's going on everyday.  But it's just not right...
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: Manda on October 13, 2008, 05:10:53 pm
I believe in the Separation of Church and State. Government and Religion should be kept separate. People should be allowed to be married (same sex) through the Government, but not in a church or recognized by the Church which does not allow it anyway.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: MeganJane on October 13, 2008, 06:30:45 pm
Quote from: "Manda"
I believe in the Separation of Church and State. Government and Religion should be kept separate. People should be allowed to be married (same sex) through the Government, but not in a church or recognized by the Church which does not allow it anyway.


Some churches do accept gays and same sex marriages. Most are too set in their ways to change their minds on the issue, but there are others who accept that people are different in many ways, and we are all equal to God. Anyway, I suppose that's another topic.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: MeganJane on October 13, 2008, 06:47:24 pm
I give up. This is going nowhere.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: nosticker on October 13, 2008, 10:05:28 pm
Marriage is between a man and a woman.  That is my belief.  It stems from my religious beliefs, as well as what I believe is best for children, society, procreation, etc.  What's more, I respect ALL dissenting opinions, and I'm not judging anyone; rather, everyone is included and I don't force my opinion on others.  I define no one by their sexual preference.  Yes, I do think some flaunt their sexuality, but I think that gives gay people a bad name.  I just saw a gay friend of mine today, and we have never, ever spoken about it.  No need.  He's simply one of the most kind and generous people on the planet.  That is what counts, not who he goes out with.

Being a hetero guy is hell enough.  I cannot imagine how difficult it is to be gay.  It is no choice, IMO...you are who you are.  If I were gay, I would most certainly want the rights that everyone else has.  I'll always be of two minds about gay marriage. but it will never be the #1 thing on my mind.  Being a good person is, though I don't always succeed.

Unlike many of you, I've been married already, so I have a different viewpoint.  I know that lawyers can't wait for more people to be able to be married......so they can make tons of money divorcing people!

I generally avoid religious or political discussions.  I see things getting somewhat heated here.  I dunno, I'm an old dude and I hate to see things get too out of hand because as time goes on, I see both sides of each issue.  I have my own sense of morality, but it doesn't get me down much on others, because everyone's situation is different and everyone's answer to life's problems is different.


Dan/NS
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: nutnlp on October 14, 2008, 07:57:50 am
I respect everyone who contributed to this thread..thanks for your mind, words and truths.  Just something I can't believe is an issue with all the more important scarce things going on in the world...
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: tylor2000 on October 14, 2008, 09:22:41 am
The people who are against gay marriage believe it is sacrilegious and the people are for it are caught up over a name.  The difference in law for marriage and civil unions vary from state to state, but even if they are completely the same in some locations, supporters still have a problem with it.  

It's pretty petty either way because of the variance of churches in the United States and in the standing of each in the law.  We might as well re-institute bigotry on the same grounds.

I've known people who were hetrosexuals who have opted for a civil union, even if it is less common, because they wanted it to be a non-religious bond. So civil unions aren't just about gay people.

Even within the gay community people are mixed on this issue.  Who cares what it is called!  Obviously a few gay couples who have nothing better to do then bring up a huge argument over something so trivial, which as a group seems to be a common trait: pitter pattering over absolutely nothing in order to have an excuse to complain about something.  Drama, drama, and more drama.

 :lol:

It has nothing to do with equal rights.  It's about how everyone is a victim in america.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: tylor2000 on October 14, 2008, 09:46:13 am
So this brings up a whole other issue.  What do you think about gay people and their right to religious expression?  Is this really about religious expression?  What is the difference between this and people's claims to have a marriage with one or more partners, like as in bigorty, where men can have more than one wife?
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: zurielshimon on October 14, 2008, 09:32:59 pm
Finally, people are saying things that are constructive and actually make sense! I think it's probably safe to say that this discussion is nearing its meaningful end. I mean, what else can really be said that isn't either total nonsense or just a reiteration of something that's already been stated?
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: tylor2000 on October 15, 2008, 08:47:44 am
I'm surprized it took you guys three pages to make them.

And yeah, I'm reiterating on purpose.  Good summary of what's been said.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: NoelleNC on October 15, 2008, 01:58:07 pm
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
If this is how people are going to try to define a marriage, then there needs to be a special word that describes only a union between a man and a woman that can in no context be used to describe two men or two women.  Not a phrase or a fabricated compound word, but one real word, something that only a man and a woman can be and no one else.


This is why I support marriage and garriage. =D

 I just think -and say whatever you wanna say, I am not going to try and legislate this, it's just my opinion - that there IS a fundamental difference between the bond a man and woman share and the bond gay couples have. Even if there was no discrimination involved, I still think there would be inherent differences and I think it is unfair to act like the bonds are exactly the same by naming them exactly the same way. And I don't personally care much what the two different words are, I am not religious. We could get rid of marriage entirely and just make up two new words, but I love words and I love detail, and I don't see why we have to expand one word to suit everyone when we could just make up a new word or version of the word to define the nuances of a gay bond. Not worse, not better, just not exactly the same.

Gays want me to think that their love is exactly the same as heterosexual's love and while I think, sure, it's similar in many ways, it's different too. People are so afraid different is bad because of prior race issues or something. I'm just saying there are slight differences given the setup of the relationship.

I'm not fuming over the matter and really don't care but I've always wished that there will remain a way to define what I have with my husband as something between a man and woman, just for the sake of clarity.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: MeganJane on October 15, 2008, 02:13:54 pm
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
Finally, people are saying things that are constructive and actually make sense!


I find that comment rather insulting.


...

Btw it's "bigamy", not "bigotry"
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: zurielshimon on October 16, 2008, 09:39:06 am
Quote from: "MeganJane"
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
Finally, people are saying things that are constructive and actually make sense!


I find that comment rather insulting.


I didn't mean that to be directed at you. But surely you could see that most of what was being said up to that point was just attacks on other people's opinions.

Quote from: "NoelleNC"
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
If this is how people are going to try to define a marriage, then there needs to be a special word that describes only a union between a man and a woman that can in no context be used to describe two men or two women.  Not a phrase or a fabricated compound word, but one real word, something that only a man and a woman can be and no one else.


This is why I support marriage and garriage. =D

 I just think -and say whatever you wanna say, I am not going to try and legislate this, it's just my opinion - that there IS a fundamental difference between the bond a man and woman share and the bond gay couples have. Even if there was no discrimination involved, I still think there would be inherent differences and I think it is unfair to act like the bonds are exactly the same by naming them exactly the same way. And I don't personally care much what the two different words are, I am not religious. We could get rid of marriage entirely and just make up two new words, but I love words and I love detail, and I don't see why we have to expand one word to suit everyone when we could just make up a new word or version of the word to define the nuances of a gay bond. Not worse, not better, just not exactly the same.

Gays want me to think that their love is exactly the same as heterosexual's love and while I think, sure, it's similar in many ways, it's different too. People are so afraid different is bad because of prior race issues or something. I'm just saying there are slight differences given the setup of the relationship.

I'm not fuming over the matter and really don't care but I've always wished that there will remain a way to define what I have with my husband as something between a man and woman, just for the sake of clarity.


I guess I was wrong; apparently there was something else that could be said. And I'm not just saying that because I happen to agree with you completely. It was also very well-written.

Quote from: "MeganJane"
Btw it's "bigamy", not "bigotry"


To be honest, I'm not in support of reinstating either one of those practices. :razz:
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: NoelleNC on October 16, 2008, 02:57:34 pm
Thanks! Actually, I made quite a few grammar mistakes, but I've been out of school for a year so I think I deserve a few =P Or maybe not, 1 year is not that long!!

But yeah, most people against gay marriage do not share my reasoning. They're usually against it for religious or moral reasons. I just think America has become too politically correct and many seem too afraid to admit that people, and now relationships, can be different if it might possibly offend someone. If I ever said to the majority of my former college peers that I am against gay marriage they would think I am  narrow minded and/or stupid. They wouldn't even consider that I might be against it for a simple, fundamental reason but that I think gay couples deserve every right of a married couple. Oh well!
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: nicole on October 21, 2008, 12:44:05 am
I'm voting NO! on prop "hate".
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: iluvvanessa on October 21, 2008, 05:22:05 am
I know prop 8 isn't all about gay marriage, but this seemed like a topic to post this in.
in my area people are very vocal about what side they're on, whether it be with signs on their lawn, a huge banner, or a button, they express it. Anyways, this weekend, a family who is really nice, and warm had a huge yes on prop 8 banner (I am against prop 8, but these people are really nice, and I've known them for a few yeats) which was graffitied, and their car was painted "bigots live here" (meaning assholes, nieve, stupid people, to say the least). Its upsetting that people feel the need to vandalize, and go out like this and ruin so much property in order to get their voice heard.

Chalking a park is one thing, but painting a car is pretty wrong.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: eclv on October 21, 2008, 04:37:46 pm
Quote from: "Emmyspiano"


     "Protect Marriage"? Is this message saying we should keep it between a man and woman? That's ridiculous. As said before, men and women can't even stay together these days. The message should be directed towards that.


I had a message on my home phone from a person calling to make sure I understood that Prop 8 was not about denying people's constitutional rights but about marriage being defined as between a man and a woman.

I think it's crazy that it passed already and now they want to take it away - again! Heterosexuals can't get marriage right so why not let the gays try?

The commercials here are talking about how if you don't protect marriage they will teach homosexuality to kids in school like it has happened in other states (I think MA)

There are a ton of Vote Yes on 8 signs in people's lawns in my neighborhood.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: MyMelody on October 21, 2008, 06:35:19 pm
The Mormons at our school (I don't know why, but we have a rather enormous Mormon community here) banded together to write a rather rage-inducing piece for the school newspaper. This is almost as bad as the Pro-Palin essay last month.

Proposition 8: Apples are Apples

In November 2000, 61% of the voting population in California officially
defined marriage in this state as a union between a man and a woman. In no
wise was any of the wording or intent of this legislation designed to
discriminate or deny same gender relationships of rights, privileges, or
respect. Then, in May of 2008, four San Francisco based California Judges of
the Supreme Court decided that they knew better than the majority of the
people in this state. Democracy was put on hold as the will of the people
was ignored. The original proposition and definition of traditional marriage
was overturned and same gender marriages were legalized in California. With
the upcoming ballot this November, voters are faced with a decision to
restore the definition of marriage or to constitutionally allow same gender
relationships to obtain the status of marriage. This is Proposition 8.

On the ballot, Proposition 8 states that, "Only marriage between a man and a
woman is valid or recognized in California.". This means a "Yes" vote on
Prop. 8 respects the voice of the people of California and defines marriage
to exist between one man and one woman. A "No" vote will continue to allow
same gender marriages under the protection of the California Constitution.

Now, let us be exceedingly clear. In no way does proposition 8 take away or
deny any rights to homosexual relationships. This is the biggest
misconception surrounding this issue. Proposition 8 is about traditional
marriage and what defines it. This is not an attack on same gender
relationships and their rights. Nothing in this proposition is about hate,
intolerance, discrimination, or inequality. Homosexual couples already enjoy
the same significant rights in a Civil Union as a heterosexual couple does
in Marriage. Nothing is denied. Nothing is held back. Nothing is unfair. So
why the controversy? Why do we have to vote on this again? Homosexuals want
their union to be defined in the same way asa marriage between a man and a
woman. The fact is; they're different. We can define an apple as an orange
all day long. But at the end of the day, the apple is still an apple. The
word Marriage came about to define the joining of a man and a woman together
in legal bonds of matrimony. This definition has been upheld for thousands
of years. Who are we to alter the essence of that definition? Marriage is
what Marriage is. Changing that would require a new word (Domestic
Partnership maybe?).

So we've discussed a lot about what is and what isn't. But why do we care?
Why do we want to protect the tradition of Marriage? First and foremost, it
comes to family. The traditional family unit is the basic and fundamental
foundation of every society in history. The protection of that unit is a
high priority and not without good reason. If the family fails, so follows
society. The following are some statistics that signal the potential
undermining of the family and society should same gender marriages be
legalized.

- 63% of youth that commit suicide come from fatherless homes.

- 71% of high school dropouts come from fatherless homes.

- 75% of adolescent patients in drug abuse centers come from fatherless
homes.

- 85% of all youth sitting in prison come from fatherless homes.

Clearly, the ideal situation for raising children falls to a healthy home
with a father and a mother. While not all fatherless homes result in this
same way, the facts speak for themselves when it comes to same gender
couples raising children. The children of this nation are also the future of
this nation. All children deserve the right to be raised by a father and a
mother. Children raised in such circumstances fare better in the above
mentioned areas. Unfortunately, far too many children fall short of this
ideal. To us, that sounds like inequality.

Just like both of the presidential candidates and their running mates, we
support traditional marriage and all the benefits therein. We believe in the
strength of the family led by a loving mother and father. In this faltering
world, the role of a strong family is more crucial than at any other time in
history. Though the will of the California voters has been rejected once,
the chance to re-affirm our voice is at hand. We want our apples to be
apples. Please remember; This is not about hate or malice. This is not an
anti-gay movement. It is a pro-marriage act. No hard feelings or prejudice
accompanies this piece of legislation. Personally, we respect the choices of
every individual, but let Marriage be defined as what it was designed for.

I am so enraged right now. Did you know that my school has a Christian club, a Mormon club, and a Conservative club? The only token liberal clubs were Go Green and GSA but nobody ever attended them so they're gone.

Did I mention we're less than an hour's drive from SAN FRANCISCO?
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: iluvvanessa on October 21, 2008, 07:34:02 pm
We're less than an hour away from SF and have an active GSA, 2 of my friends are in it.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: tylor2000 on October 22, 2008, 10:39:43 am
I might vote for it but not because I'm against gay marriage.  I live in San Francisco.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: MyMelody on October 22, 2008, 09:43:30 pm
Best (note my sarcasm) argument I've heard for Prop 8, ever:


Prop 8 supporter to her friend: I'm in favor of Prop 8 because, I mean, that court decision totally goes against our rights to freedom of religion. It's like, hello, you already have the exact same rights as the rest of us, so who cares if it's called "marriage" or not? There are some of us who actually, you know, have morals and it isn't very fair for them to rub this like, sacred thing in our faces. Ugh. Plus, I mean, then they're going to start teaching kids about gay marriage when they're like, five. Can you imagine? I mean, little kids should not be exposed to that kind of stuff. It's totally brainwashing them! Oh, it'll be awful, cause I mean, they'll want to marry their best friend or something. Oh my God, and also, they like, shut down churches that don't perform gay marriages. Can you say "separation of church and state"? I respect your lack of faith and all, but don't force us to conform to your stupid principles. Besides, every gay person I've talked to, like, doesn't care about getting married. The only people who seem to be all angry about it are people who won't ever be affected by it unless they choose to be gay too, so it's like, what do you know about gay marriage? You're not gay.

Her friend: Well, if marriage is so sacred, why don't we outlaw divorce and adultery, too?

Her: Well, that's different.



*facepalm* I don't think I need to explain the stupidity in this one, do I? I paraphrased a little because in the middle she started going on about how people who don't recite the whole Pledge of Allegiance need to "get over themselves; America is a Christian country and pretty much all religions believe in God anyway, so it's not like there's anyone that matters who'd actually offended".

More importantly, though, is Prop 4. If Prop 4 passes I will remain in bed for a week, weeping for the future of our allegedly blue state (not to mention our supposedly just nation).[/b]
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: tylor2000 on October 23, 2008, 07:42:52 am
Why not vote for prop. 8?  It's not going to count anyway.  Remember? The Mayor of San Francisco says gay marriage is going to happen if we like it or not.  They'll find a way to get around it or strike it down and I'd like to see them do it.  So I encourage everyone to vote for Prop. 8 so we can see democracy at work.

The San Francisco political engine at work for the better of our state.  Too bad Gay Rights are being put on the chopping block like this.
 :(
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: charmedguy18 on October 27, 2008, 07:00:42 am
Since I'm locked up in a hospital, I'm out of the loop with this Proposition 8 business. I rarely see the news. But, honestly, there have been about 20 too many threads related to this topic.... Marraige should be between any two Homo Sapien Sapiens who love eachother. If a church says they don't agree with homosexual marraige, then they shouldn't be forced to marry them, but the government shouldn't force churches who would allow it to not be able to do it... If that makes sense.
I live in South Carolina, so this very progressive (insert sarcasm here) state has a long time to go until we see anything close to gay marraige.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: Manda on November 03, 2008, 10:34:59 pm
I'm voting NO on Prop 8 tomorrow.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: eclv on November 03, 2008, 11:07:21 pm
Good for you Manda. I am too. There are so many arguments pro and against but it's such discrimination, I can't even believe it. The main thing I am hearing from people on the news is that they aren't against gay people they just don't want their kids to be taught about it in school. I don't recall being taught about marriage anywhere but at CCD.

On my way home I saw people for both sides at the intersection. It's cold, wet and 10:30 at night.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: tylor2000 on November 04, 2008, 02:41:44 pm
I probably won't get down to vote today.  :cry:   But I hope it passes damn it.  It's not discimination.  If they want to say it is wrong, they should look into the bible every once in a while to see what it says is WRONG.  Talk about hypocrites.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: Manda on November 04, 2008, 03:01:40 pm
Quote from: "eclv"
Good for you Manda. I am too. There are so many arguments pro and against but it's such discrimination, I can't even believe it. The main thing I am hearing from people on the news is that they aren't against gay people they just don't want their kids to be taught about it in school. I don't recall being taught about marriage anywhere but at CCD.

On my way home I saw people for both sides at the intersection. It's cold, wet and 10:30 at night.


Thanks Let. I voted...No, on Prop 8. I think we need to be more open these days and love is love. I believe love is not just man + woman, it can be found in any sex. Its about personality, friendship, the whole package a person has to offer another. Heterosexuals take marriage for granted, and most homosexual couples have stayed strong and are so deeply in love. Some are even part of churches (my Catholic cousin who claims he was born gay, I believe him), let him marry in the church he grew up in. It isn't hurting anyone, and people need to be more open. Some are born gay/lesbian/transgender-whatever, and some people know they aren't. Who cares? Marriage is a union with two people who LOVE one another. Get over it, I'm over it. I'm glad the gays in my life have slapped some sense into me. No on Prop 8!
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: Manda on November 07, 2008, 11:46:28 am
I cannot believe we have a black President but G/L's can't get married.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: eclv on November 10, 2008, 09:41:01 pm
MSNBC Keith Olbermann comments on Prop 8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVUecPhQPqY
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: cassiemoy on November 11, 2008, 06:57:40 pm
Quote from: "eclv"
MSNBC Keith Olbermann comments on Prop 8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVUecPhQPqY


thanks, let. loved it, eloquent and emotional defense.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: tylor2000 on November 15, 2008, 11:52:56 am
I told you it wasn't going to count.  It doesn't matter if 90% of the people voted yes on prop. 8.  Your vote doesn't count because special interest groups run our government and judges manipulate and make the law.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: SadAsBlue on December 03, 2008, 02:57:18 pm
I can see both sides of the Gay Marrige issue. In my opinion there is no absolute justified answer. People will throw a fit either way.
Title: protect marriage?
Post by: Ryou-Neko on January 10, 2009, 04:49:25 am
The United States needs to be a bit more egalitarian. We're so behind.

Honestly, though, I could care less whether the right of homosexual marriage is granted; it's more important to get the rights rather than the title, but most people don't seem to understand that.

That, and I have very cynical views about <i>all</i> state-sanctioned marriage.