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Vanessa Carlton => General Vanessa Carlton Discussion => Topic started by: nosticker on August 25, 2005, 11:43:15 am

Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: nosticker on August 25, 2005, 11:43:15 am
I found these titles on BMI.com:

IT'S NOW
SUMMER CHILD
UNDERNEATH

Vanessa is listed as a songwriter along with the three Matrix songwriters.

While I respect the success of these guys, I have to admit that I'm a little queasy.  She certainly didn't need them for ATM or OD, and indeed, those songs wipe the floor with anything the Matrix has created.  Still, I'll reserve my judgment until I hear the finished tracks.


Here is what I found on a search.  It may or may not be complete.  An interesting list of songs!

 
Songwriter/Composer: CARLTON VANESSA  

Current Affiliation: BMI
CAE/IPI #: 355355455

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
There are 31 Work Titles
First  Previous  1 2  Next Last
  Work Title BMI Work #
 1. AFTERGLOW 7205328
 2. ALL I ASK 6116944
 3. ANNIE 7205336
 4. C EST LA VIE 7205330
 5. DARK CARNIVAL 6835078
 6. FONTVELLA 6790872
 7. GREENSLEEVES 6445383
 8. HALF A WEEK BEFORE THE WINTER 7205331
 9. IT S NOW 7532078
 10. ORDINARY DAY 6084294
 11. PAPA 7205332
 12. PARADISE 6116947
 13. PRETTY BABY 6125446
 14. PRINCE 6116949
 15. PRIVATE RADIO 7205329
 16. RED DITTY 6606719
 17. RINSE 6116950
 18. SAN FRANCISCO 7205333
 19. SHE FLOATS 7205334
 20. SUMMER CHILD 7532080
 21. SUPERHERO 6116951
 22. SWAY 6045247
 23. SWINDLER 6427072
 24. THOUSAND MILES 5677702
 25. TWILIGHT 6127875


Dan/NS
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: amberbeads on August 25, 2005, 11:50:25 am
Fontvella? :?
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: nosticker on August 25, 2005, 11:59:22 am
Quote from: "amberbeads"
Fontvella? :?


Me, too....not familiar with that.  Also note the absence, at least at this point, of the 3 newest songs.

Apologies for some of my strong words in my previous post.  For all I know, the Matrix songs are old or never to be used.


Dan/NS
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: angelheart56 on August 25, 2005, 04:48:03 pm
Could Fontvella be the song in Pleased to Meet you?
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: iKnowWhatYouDid on August 25, 2005, 06:15:07 pm
LoL wasn't somebody saying they thought the new CD would be called "Fontella" ?
Title: The Matrix
Post by: liquidblue244 on August 25, 2005, 06:34:43 pm
iknowwhatyoudid said,
Quote
LoL wasn't somebody saying they thought the new CD would be called "Fontella" ?


That was actually me, it was a dream I had.  I dreamed that she had named her 3rd album Fontella, and I couldn't remember where I had heard the name from....hmm...interesting, so who is the Matrix by the way?
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: iKnowWhatYouDid on August 25, 2005, 06:53:29 pm
wow, thats really weird / cool
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: Emmyspiano on August 25, 2005, 07:06:27 pm
awesome!
Title: Re: The Matrix
Post by: Emmyspiano on August 25, 2005, 10:19:44 pm
Quote from: "liquidblue244"
iknowwhatyoudid said,
Quote
LoL wasn't somebody saying they thought the new CD would be called "Fontella" ?


That was actually me, it was a dream I had.  I dreamed that she had named her 3rd album Fontella, and I couldn't remember where I had heard the name from....hmm...interesting, so who is the Matrix by the way?


How weird, but VERY cool!
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: zurielshimon on August 25, 2005, 10:22:28 pm
'Be not Nobody' came to Vanessa in a dream, so it's not that farfetched.

Are we talking about the same Matrix that wrote with Avril Lavigne???
Title: Re: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: zurielshimon on August 26, 2005, 05:18:13 am
Quote from: "nosticker"
I found these titles on BMI.com:

IT'S NOW
SUMMER CHILD
UNDERNEATH

Vanessa is listed as a songwriter along with the three Matrix songwriters.

While I respect the success of these guys, I have to admit that I'm a little queasy.  She certainly didn't need them for ATM or OD, and indeed, those songs wipe the floor with anything the Matrix has created.  Still, I'll reserve my judgment until I hear the finished tracks.


Here is what I found on a search.  It may or may not be complete.  An interesting list of songs!

 
Songwriter/Composer: CARLTON VANESSA  

Current Affiliation: BMI
CAE/IPI #: 355355455

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
There are 31 Work Titles
First  Previous  1 2  Next Last
  Work Title BMI Work #
 1. AFTERGLOW 7205328
 2. ALL I ASK 6116944
 3. ANNIE 7205336
 4. C EST LA VIE 7205330
 5. DARK CARNIVAL 6835078
 6. FONTVELLA 6790872
 7. GREENSLEEVES 6445383
 8. HALF A WEEK BEFORE THE WINTER 7205331
 9. IT S NOW 7532078
 10. ORDINARY DAY 6084294
 11. PAPA 7205332
 12. PARADISE 6116947
 13. PRETTY BABY 6125446
 14. PRINCE 6116949
 15. PRIVATE RADIO 7205329
 16. RED DITTY 6606719
 17. RINSE 6116950
 18. SAN FRANCISCO 7205333
 19. SHE FLOATS 7205334
 20. SUMMER CHILD 7532080
 21. SUPERHERO 6116951
 22. SWAY 6045247
 23. SWINDLER 6427072
 24. THOUSAND MILES 5677702
 25. TWILIGHT 6127875


Dan/NS

Don't forget these:

   26.   UNDERNEATH   7532079
   27.   UNSUNG   6045248
   28.   WANTED   6116953
   29.   WHITE HOUSES   7209017
   30.   WHO S TO SAY   7205337
   31.   WRECKAGE THE   7205335
Title: hm
Post by: Harmonium on August 26, 2005, 07:20:08 am
Every song on Harmonium is marked with the number 72XXXXXX and those three other songs is marked 75XXXXXX. They must be later recorded songs...
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: portions.for.foxes on August 26, 2005, 07:25:27 am
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
'Be not Nobody' came to Vanessa in a dream, so it's not that farfetched.

Are we talking about the same Matrix that wrote with Avril Lavigne???


Yeah, the Matrix are that super "omgz we make huge pop hits" group. They worked with Avril Lavigne on her first album and with Liz Phair on her latest effort. All the singles that Avril released from her first album were written by the Matrix actually. Oh, and they worked with Britney Spears on her last album too if I recall correctly. Heh.

If Vanessa wants to make a comeback... the Matrix are no doubt the way to go, but... hrm. I have mixed feelings about the Matrix.
Title: Re: hm
Post by: zurielshimon on August 26, 2005, 07:50:49 am
Quote from: "Harmonium"
Every song on Harmonium is marked with the number 72XXXXXX and those three other songs is marked 75XXXXXX. They must be later recorded songs...

It's pretty consistent.  Look at the list, put in Work Number order:

5677702   Thousand Miles
6045247   Sway
6045248   Unsung
6084294   Ordinary Day
6116944   All I Ask
6116947   Paradise
6116949   Prince
6116950   Rinse
6116951   Superhero
6116953   Wanted
6125446   Pretty Baby
6127875   Twilight
6427072   Swindler
6445383   Greensleeves
6606719   Red Ditty
6790872   Fontvella
6835078   Dark Carnival
7205328   Afterglow
7205329   Private Radio
7205330   C'est La Vie
7205331   Half A Week Before The Winter
7205332   Papa
7205333   San Francisco
7205334   She Floats
7205335   Wreckage The
7205336   Annie
7205337   Who's To Say
7209017   White Houses
7532078   It's Now
7532079   Underneath
7532080   Summer Child

"A Thousand Miles" seems to stick out early, which is odd, but the list seems to go in almost perfect chronological order.  Mind you, perhaps not in order as they were written, but probably in the order in which they were submitted to BMI by Vanessa for licensing.  If this is true, it would certainly mean that "It's Now", "Underneath", and "Summer Child" are brand new, especially as the latest Work Number in the database as of today is 7705632, "That's How Close We Are" by One Twelve.
Title: Re: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: nosticker on August 26, 2005, 07:57:15 am
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
                                                                                   
Don't forget these:

   26.   UNDERNEATH   7532079
   27.   UNSUNG   6045248
   28.   WANTED   6116953
   29.   WHITE HOUSES   7209017
   30.   WHO S TO SAY   7205337
   31.   WRECKAGE THE   7205335


Thank you!  I left those out.  Gonna make sure they're over on the O-board.


By the way, I'm sort of regretful about posting these songs.  I didn't do it as an "expose" or any kind of dis.  I DO like some of the Matrix' work, but I felt it was more appropriate with those who may be great performers but not necessarily songwriters(Lavigne, Aguilera, Spears)...NOT Vanessa.

Vanessa needs a label that believes in her, not a conglomerate.

Hey, it could be worse!  John Shanks as producer, anyone? (again, someone I respect, but not for VC).


Dan/NS
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: portions.for.foxes on August 26, 2005, 08:04:48 am
Agreed. John Shanks... Ashlee Simpson. *Shudders*

I'm actually glad to see Linda Perry producing Vanessa's album. At least, that's what she said in her last post on the o-board right? I'm not delussional am I?  :?
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: Arwen on August 26, 2005, 08:40:08 am
Lol, yes Vanessa really did say that LP would be producing her album.

Um, if I had my say, I'd really prefer that Vanessa not work with the Matrix. She's so much better than that, you know? She doesn't need them. I just hope that if there are some Matrix songs on the new album, that they're not too icky poppy.
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: amberbeads on August 26, 2005, 09:22:03 am
You guys are forgetting something. This is VANESSA we are talking about. If she wants to work with the Matrix, I trust her judgement. Besides, she makes music for HERSELF. We just happen to like it, too. So if she wants to work with John Shanks or the Matrix or Linda Perry or Britney Spears or WHOEVER, it is because she wants to and that's what's important.
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: nosticker on August 26, 2005, 10:17:06 am
Quote from: "amberbeads"
You guys are forgetting something. This is VANESSA we are talking about. If she wants to work with the Matrix, I trust her judgement. Besides, she makes music for HERSELF. We just happen to like it, too. So if she wants to work with John Shanks or the Matrix or Linda Perry or Britney Spears or WHOEVER, it is because she wants to and that's what's important.


Sorry, I don't agree with you.  The Matrix makes cookie-cutter pop, and while they are damn good at what they do, their songwriting leaves plenty to be desired.  

I doubt they have the talent or inspiration to come up with a song like "Annie", for example.  And I'm sure they would have loved to have written ATM.

If Vanessa feels that she must move in the Matrix direction, then that's what she'll do.  I'm sure she would succeed.  But then, I couldn't take her as seriously as before. :(

Dan/NS
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: saphire on August 26, 2005, 11:52:55 am
I thinjk the titles are sounding realy interesting, but is that a real thing or could that be a fault like Watch me shine or Along for the ride. I realy don't know. Sombody else, maybe?
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: Emmyspiano on August 26, 2005, 12:51:10 pm
along for the ride is Swindler
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: PianoGirl4444 on August 26, 2005, 01:51:07 pm
Quote from: "portions.for.foxes"
Agreed. John Shanks... Ashlee Simpson. *Shudders*

I'm actually glad to see Linda Perry producing Vanessa's album. At least, that's what she said in her last post on the o-board right? I'm not delussional am I?  :?


John Shanks is an amazing producer.  You WILL see me working with him someday.  Mark my words.   :wink:  :lol:
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: nosticker on August 26, 2005, 01:57:05 pm
Quote from: "PianoGirl4444"
Quote from: "portions.for.foxes"
Agreed. John Shanks... Ashlee Simpson. *Shudders*

I'm actually glad to see Linda Perry producing Vanessa's album. At least, that's what she said in her last post on the o-board right? I'm not delussional am I?  :?


John Shanks is an amazing producer.  You WILL see me working with him someday.  Mark my words.   :wink:  :lol:


What do you find "amazing" about John Shanks versus other producers?


Dan/NS
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: PianoGirl4444 on August 26, 2005, 03:38:06 pm
Quote from: "nosticker"
Quote from: "PianoGirl4444"
Quote from: "portions.for.foxes"
Agreed. John Shanks... Ashlee Simpson. *Shudders*

I'm actually glad to see Linda Perry producing Vanessa's album. At least, that's what she said in her last post on the o-board right? I'm not delussional am I?  :?


John Shanks is an amazing producer.  You WILL see me working with him someday.  Mark my words.   :wink:  :lol:


What do you find "amazing" about John Shanks versus other producers?


Dan/NS


Maybe it's not his producing abilities, but instead his songwriting that I appreciate.
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: saphire on August 27, 2005, 02:30:25 am
is she now writing with john shanks or his he a part of the Matrix or why are we discussing about him?
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: amberbeads on August 27, 2005, 06:30:00 am
Quote from: "PianoGirl4444"
Quote from: "nosticker"
Quote from: "PianoGirl4444"
Quote from: "portions.for.foxes"
Agreed. John Shanks... Ashlee Simpson. *Shudders*

I'm actually glad to see Linda Perry producing Vanessa's album. At least, that's what she said in her last post on the o-board right? I'm not delussional am I?  :?


John Shanks is an amazing producer.  You WILL see me working with him someday.  Mark my words.   :wink:  :lol:


What do you find "amazing" about John Shanks versus other producers?


Dan/NS


Maybe it's not his producing abilities, but instead his songwriting that I appreciate.

I totally feel you, Shannon. I can write great lyrics, but I suck at melody and I'd KILL to write with John Shanks.
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: amberbeads on August 27, 2005, 06:31:39 am
Quote from: "nosticker"
Quote from: "amberbeads"
You guys are forgetting something. This is VANESSA we are talking about. If she wants to work with the Matrix, I trust her judgement. Besides, she makes music for HERSELF. We just happen to like it, too. So if she wants to work with John Shanks or the Matrix or Linda Perry or Britney Spears or WHOEVER, it is because she wants to and that's what's important.


Sorry, I don't agree with you.  The Matrix makes cookie-cutter pop, and while they are damn good at what they do, their songwriting leaves plenty to be desired.  

I doubt they have the talent or inspiration to come up with a song like "Annie", for example.  And I'm sure they would have loved to have written ATM.

If Vanessa feels that she must move in the Matrix direction, then that's what she'll do.  I'm sure she would succeed.  But then, I couldn't take her as seriously as before. :(

Dan/NS

Well, I have faith in Vanessa. No one is perfect and sometimes they need help to come up with great stuff.
And as far as the inspiration and talent that went into Annie, Nessa meeting Victoria was the inspiration but she did not write the lyrics to that song. Or Who's To Say. Or White Houses. Or most of Private Radio. But you still take her seriously?
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: NoelleNC on August 27, 2005, 08:00:46 am
She didn't write the lyrics at all???
Title: ...
Post by: Harmonium on August 27, 2005, 08:04:54 am
Ehm, she co-wrote those songs with stephen...


Quote from: "amberbeads"
Quote from: "nosticker"
Quote from: "amberbeads"
You guys are forgetting something. This is VANESSA we are talking about. If she wants to work with the Matrix, I trust her judgement. Besides, she makes music for HERSELF. We just happen to like it, too. So if she wants to work with John Shanks or the Matrix or Linda Perry or Britney Spears or WHOEVER, it is because she wants to and that's what's important.


Sorry, I don't agree with you.  The Matrix makes cookie-cutter pop, and while they are damn good at what they do, their songwriting leaves plenty to be desired.  

I doubt they have the talent or inspiration to come up with a song like "Annie", for example.  And I'm sure they would have loved to have written ATM.

If Vanessa feels that she must move in the Matrix direction, then that's what she'll do.  I'm sure she would succeed.  But then, I couldn't take her as seriously as before. :(

Dan/NS

Well, I have faith in Vanessa. No one is perfect and sometimes they need help to come up with great stuff.
And as far as the inspiration and talent that went into Annie, Nessa meeting Victoria was the inspiration but she did not write the lyrics to that song. Or Who's To Say. Or White Houses. Or most of Private Radio. But you still take her seriously?
Title: Re: hm
Post by: rosieposy87 on August 27, 2005, 09:10:03 am
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
Quote from: "Harmonium"
Every song on Harmonium is marked with the number 72XXXXXX and those three other songs is marked 75XXXXXX. They must be later recorded songs...

It's pretty consistent.  Look at the list, put in Work Number order:

5677702   Thousand Miles
6045247   Sway
6045248   Unsung
6084294   Ordinary Day
6116944   All I Ask
6116947   Paradise
6116949   Prince
6116950   Rinse
6116951   Superhero
6116953   Wanted
6125446   Pretty Baby
6127875   Twilight
6427072   Swindler
6445383   Greensleeves
6606719   Red Ditty
6790872   Fontvella
6835078   Dark Carnival
7205328   Afterglow
7205329   Private Radio
7205330   C'est La Vie
7205331   Half A Week Before The Winter
7205332   Papa
7205333   San Francisco
7205334   She Floats
7205335   Wreckage The
7205336   Annie
7205337   Who's To Say
7209017   White Houses
7532078   It's Now
7532079   Underneath
7532080   Summer Child

"A Thousand Miles" seems to stick out early, which is odd, but the list seems to go in almost perfect chronological order.  Mind you, perhaps not in order as they were written, but probably in the order in which they were submitted to BMI by Vanessa for licensing.  If this is true, it would certainly mean that "It's Now", "Underneath", and "Summer Child" are brand new, especially as the latest Work Number in the database as of today is 7705632, "That's How Close We Are" by One Twelve.


A Thousand Miles was written way way before the other stuff on BnN from what i know. So thats why its registered earlier.
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: nat on August 27, 2005, 09:25:02 am
well, i think that vanessa don´t need them to make good music, but they are good and i´m very curious about it.
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: amberbeads on August 27, 2005, 11:33:37 am
Quote from: "NoelleNC"
She didn't write the lyrics at all???

I'm sure she assisted but I can tell you that the majority of those lyrics were written by Stephan.
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: Harmonium on August 27, 2005, 12:52:08 pm
Quote from: "amberbeads"
Quote from: "NoelleNC"
She didn't write the lyrics at all???

I'm sure she assisted but I can tell you that the majority of those lyrics were written by Stephan.


How do you know that...?
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: amberbeads on August 27, 2005, 01:31:01 pm
Number one, he's credited to have helped write those songs. Number two, he doesn't play piano so he didn't write the piano part. Number three, I'm a huge Third Eye Blind fan and it's obvious to me what Stephan wrote and what he didn't. Number four, lyrically, those songs are MUCH different from the ones Vanessa wrote herself.
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: Harmonium on August 27, 2005, 03:39:55 pm
They co-wrote those songs. You can even see in "pleased to meet you" when they are working with "who's to say" togheter. Stephen didn't write all of those lyrics himself...  And you say that he wrote annie, white houses, who's to say and most of the parts on private radio. So what if you are a huge third eye blind fan. You have nothing to confirm that this is true...  


Quote from: "amberbeads"
Number one, he's credited to have helped write those songs. Number two, he doesn't play piano so he didn't write the piano part. Number three, I'm a huge Third Eye Blind fan and it's obvious to me what Stephan wrote and what he didn't. Number four, lyrically, those songs are MUCH different from the ones Vanessa wrote herself.
Title: Re: The Matrix
Post by: reveng_desire on August 27, 2005, 03:48:25 pm
Quote from: "liquidblue244"
iknowwhatyoudid said,
Quote
LoL wasn't somebody saying they thought the new CD would be called "Fontella" ?


That was actually me, it was a dream I had.  I dreamed that she had named her 3rd album Fontella, and I couldn't remember where I had heard the name from



lol Zach...awww...hehehe
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: amberbeads on August 27, 2005, 05:56:44 pm
Quote from: "Harmonium"
They co-wrote those songs. You can even see in "pleased to meet you" when they are working with "who's to say" togheter. Stephen didn't write all of those lyrics himself...  And you say that he wrote annie, white houses, who's to say and most of the parts on private radio. So what if you are a huge third eye blind fan. You have nothing to confirm that this is true...

Why it matters that I'm a huge fan is because I know how to recognize his writing style.
Honestly, Vanessa can cowrite with whoever she wants. If she wants to let other people write parts, she can. It's her music. Get over it, she doesn't have to do it ALL herself. It's like you're just in denial or something. She is not a musical genious; she is not a goddess. She is just a nice girl who likes to sing and play piano and some people like listening to her.
Title: ...
Post by: Harmonium on August 28, 2005, 04:36:03 am
Did I say that i wanted her to to everything herself? No.. I told you that i thought you where wrong when you said that Stephen wrote all of those songs "Himself"...



Quote from: "amberbeads"
Quote from: "Harmonium"
They co-wrote those songs. You can even see in "pleased to meet you" when they are working with "who's to say" togheter. Stephen didn't write all of those lyrics himself...  And you say that he wrote annie, white houses, who's to say and most of the parts on private radio. So what if you are a huge third eye blind fan. You have nothing to confirm that this is true...

Why it matters that I'm a huge fan is because I know how to recognize his writing style.
Honestly, Vanessa can cowrite with whoever she wants. If she wants to let other people write parts, she can. It's her music. Get over it, she doesn't have to do it ALL herself. It's like you're just in denial or something. She is not a musical genious; she is not a goddess. She is just a nice girl who likes to sing and play piano and some people like listening to her.
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: nosticker on August 29, 2005, 07:50:10 am
Quote from: "amberbeads"
Quote from: "Harmonium"
They co-wrote those songs. You can even see in "pleased to meet you" when they are working with "who's to say" togheter. Stephen didn't write all of those lyrics himself...  And you say that he wrote annie, white houses, who's to say and most of the parts on private radio. So what if you are a huge third eye blind fan. You have nothing to confirm that this is true...

Why it matters that I'm a huge fan is because I know how to recognize his writing style.
Honestly, Vanessa can cowrite with whoever she wants. If she wants to let other people write parts, she can. It's her music. Get over it, she doesn't have to do it ALL herself. It's like you're just in denial or something. She is not a musical genious; she is not a goddess. She is just a nice girl who likes to sing and play piano and some people like listening to her.


I'm with Harmonium on this.  Apart from having been a fly on the wall during the writing/pre-production/recording process, there is no way anyone could know FOR SURE.  As a 3rd/SJ fan, you have an edge over non SJ fans in recognizing his style, but what you may think is an SJ line could just be his influence on her.  It happens when ppl work together for so long.


Dan/NS
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: amberbeads on August 29, 2005, 11:23:44 am
You don't see the extreme difference in lyrical styles between those songs and the rest of Harmonium and BNN?
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: anycon on August 29, 2005, 12:13:27 pm
Quote from: "amberbeads"
It's like you're just in denial or something. She is not a musical genious; she is not a goddess. She is just a nice girl who likes to sing and play piano and some people like listening to her.


Shattered I am lost/Bitter is the frost...
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: nosticker on August 29, 2005, 02:13:50 pm
Quote from: "amberbeads"
You don't see the extreme difference in lyrical styles between those songs and the rest of Harmonium and BNN?


Sure!  I also hear differences in the drum sound and the use of major seventh chords, but that's not what I'm talking about.  The best one can do outside of Vanessa and Stephan is INFER that a lyric(or chord) is from one or the other.  

Are you correct?  Probably, but not enough to "know" it for a fact.  I'm not saying you are definitely incorrect, it's that, in the process of writing songs and producing, things get melded together.
Hell, the engineer at the session could have suggested a lyric or structural change.  There is no way to know for sure...that is my only point.


Dan/NS
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: amberbeads on August 29, 2005, 02:46:08 pm
I was also told by 3eb's management that Stephan wrote those songs. But whatever. It doesn't matter, you can believe what you want.
Title: Vanessa's Writing Style
Post by: liquidblue244 on August 29, 2005, 04:28:49 pm
Well I would have to say that Vanessa's writing style has changed just a tad, listen to her recent live songs and you'll see why.  I don't think it is safe to say that Stephen wrote most of the songs on the songs he co-wrote with her, you have to realize that the songs Vanessa wrote herself were older than the ones with Stephan, this being because she played them live and stated she was writing new songs before they came out.  I have to say that it is possible he could have highly influenced her writing style, they are dating so it is likely, and knowing how Vanessa is, she probably wrote most of them, she doesn't like co-writing, and I assume that she wouldn't want some-one contributing more than herself on one of her songs.

But that's just me.
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: nosticker on August 29, 2005, 05:55:56 pm
Quote from: "amberbeads"
I was also told by 3eb's management that Stephan wrote those songs. But whatever. It doesn't matter, you can believe what you want.


First you say you can recognize SJ's style, then you say you were told by 3eb's management......so which is it?  And what would you expect THEIR management to say, anyway?

For me, it's at best a curiosity who wrote what.  The differences stick out more to you than I.  For me, I think there is quite a blend, which to me is a sign of a great producer.  Mind you, I'm not a 3eb fan, but I've been a fan of music long enough to recognize that while the lyrics got a bit deeper on Harmonium, the songs did not make a serious left turn that would confuse the songs with that of Elvis Costello or Neil Finn.

Do I believe that SJ wrote the majority of the songs on which they collaborated?  No.  My gut instinct is that he wrote a bridge here, a chord there, etc., which an album producer often does.  And he deserves credit for that.  Add to this that they were a couple and most certainly influenced each other, likely played chord sequences to each other, and that is what you get....a collaboration. The songs fit right next to the other VC songs, yet are different enough to make one say "F**K! I had no idea there could be so much variety on a modern pop album!"

Stephan did a f-ing brilliant job with this album, and it was a tragedy that it was overlooked.  I don't know what he wrote or didn't write.  I do know that this was one of his finest moments on all fronts.


Dan/NS
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: amberbeads on August 29, 2005, 06:30:46 pm
Quote from: "nosticker"
Quote from: "amberbeads"
I was also told by 3eb's management that Stephan wrote those songs. But whatever. It doesn't matter, you can believe what you want.


First you say you can recognize SJ's style, then you say you were told by 3eb's management......so which is it?  And what would you expect THEIR management to say, anyway?

I CAN recognize his style. It was later, when someone in 3eb's management was ASKED about it, that it was confirmed. And it wouldn't matter to their management either way. In fact, 3eb fans were irritated by SJ's work on Nessa's album and his lack of commitment to 3eb, so it was really the last thing 3eb fans wanted to hear.
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: nosticker on August 29, 2005, 08:10:25 pm
Quote from: "amberbeads"
Quote from: "nosticker"
Quote from: "amberbeads"
I was also told by 3eb's management that Stephan wrote those songs. But whatever. It doesn't matter, you can believe what you want.


First you say you can recognize SJ's style, then you say you were told by 3eb's management......so which is it?  And what would you expect THEIR management to say, anyway?

I CAN recognize his style. It was later, when someone in 3eb's management was ASKED about it, that it was confirmed. And it wouldn't matter to their management either way. In fact, 3eb fans were irritated by SJ's work on Nessa's album and his lack of commitment to 3eb, so it was really the last thing 3eb fans wanted to hear.


That's interesting.  I had no idea.  I always thought that 3eb WAS Stephan, if you get me.  My impression is that Elektra mishandled Vein(and everyone is bailing from that label, even Metallica).  The stuff I heard on the VC tour was pretty damn good!  

I can understand the fans' sentiments, but SJ is too good a producer to do 100% 3eb.  Perhaps he can return with a fresher perspective after having done Harmonium.


Dan/NS
Title: Just a thought...
Post by: snickers on August 31, 2005, 04:21:44 am
Whose name appears first in the songwriting credits?  That order of appearance matters.  Every artist wants credit for their work. The person most responsible for/with the most impact on the creation of the song comes first, and on down the line.  I always assumed that because Nessa's name came first that she was the principal writer.  Just a thought...but what do I know, really?
Title: Re: Just a thought...
Post by: zurielshimon on August 31, 2005, 05:45:34 am
Quote from: "snickers"
Whose name appears first in the songwriting credits?  That order of appearance matters.  Every artist wants credit for their work. The person most responsible for/with the most impact on the creation of the song comes first, and on down the line.  I always assumed that because Nessa's name came first that she was the principal writer.  Just a thought...but what do I know, really?

This isn't always true.  All songs written by either John Lennon or Paul McCartney during the Beatles era were always credited to John Lennon and Paul McCartney, in that order, whether or not both had made any contribution to the composition.
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: amberbeads on August 31, 2005, 09:40:27 am
Nessa's name appears first, but Carlton also comes before Jenkins in the alphabet.
Title: Re: Just a thought...
Post by: nosticker on August 31, 2005, 07:41:35 pm
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
Quote from: "snickers"
Whose name appears first in the songwriting credits?  That order of appearance matters.  Every artist wants credit for their work. The person most responsible for/with the most impact on the creation of the song comes first, and on down the line.  I always assumed that because Nessa's name came first that she was the principal writer.  Just a thought...but what do I know, really?

This isn't always true.  All songs written by either John Lennon or Paul McCartney during the Beatles era were always credited to John Lennon and Paul McCartney, in that order, whether or not both had made any contribution to the composition.


Zurielshimon is correct.  Also, look at bands where all members are credited as songwriters(like REM or Van Halen).  Sure, there is a financial incentive, but also there's a value in having everyone in the band get along!

I think people would be surprised if they knew that some of the people listed as songwriters had zilch to do with the song's creation.  Similarly, I have a CD where the primary songwriter was left off entirely!

Dan/NS
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: William Glast on September 02, 2005, 09:36:04 am
I see you people like to argue about insignificant shit... well 'insignificant' is not the proper term to be used here, more like IMPOSSIBLE TO DETERMINE!

However
Harmonium is something c o m p l e t e l y different than Third Eye Blinds 'Third Eye Blind', 'Blue' or 'Out of the Vein'.... especially concidering that these three albums are very similar in terms of style. So there is no need to worry, Harmonium is Vanessas album (with the score of minimum60/40) and let Steven have his taste of artistic glory and commercial failure... if he needs it.
Title: Vanessa has written songs with the Matrix
Post by: nosticker on September 02, 2005, 02:07:33 pm
Quote from: "William Glast"
I see you people like to argue about insignificant shit... well 'insignificant' is not the proper term to be used here, more like IMPOSSIBLE TO DETERMINE!


Hmmm...I guess this means that you like to read, and then respond to, insignificant shit?(LOL)  But I agree with you....this thread has gone just a tad off the deep end.  Trying to determine who wrote what is futile.

Ultimately, I don't care.  It's a good album.  Leave it at that.


Dan/NS