Author Topic: Feminism  (Read 8048 times)

rosieposy87

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Feminism
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2005, 12:19:05 pm »
Quote from: "Grakthis"
Quote from: "rosieposy87"
Andrew, i wholey agree with your point that women should live up to exactly the same standards as men in positions that they take- the fact is, if they don't have a chance to take those positions in the first place, how will they prove it?


I have no problem with women being given the same opportunities and standards as men.

And I think that goes both directions.

But what I think MOST feminist GROUPS in this country don't realize is that women and men do have different abilities.



 I completely agree. But where women have exactly the same ability they should be given the opportunity to put it into action. I accept that  women and men have different abilities- while men have more muscular strength it is proven that women have more muscular stamina- thats the way it is. But when women can't get any higher in their job because of the atmosphere created by men then i have a problem with it.

I think a lot of women will accept this fact- we know there are some things you do better than us, and we do some things better than you. What many feminists are trying to say is that women have abilities to bring to a situation which may make an organisation work more effectively which men had previously not considered. Different can be better too.
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Will

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« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2005, 01:16:57 pm »
Quote from: "rosieposy87"
Fair play. In politics we study the many strands of feminist thought which  are not so radical in basis and only advocate equality- if you haven't studied them then thats not your fault.


In the US, we theoretically have opportunistic equality. I only say theoretically because "affirmative action" and it's ilk has destroyed such things. I don't think it would be too far fetched to say it exists in Europe as well. If I'm wrong, I'd like to see some examples. If equality is achieved, the movement would have no reason for existing. Therefore, it is quite evident that what these groups are pushing for is not equality.

Quote from: "rosieposy87"
I think that the concept of a 'struggle' is just characteristic bound to emerge from any remotely oppressed section of society in their fight for more rights.


I argue, as would many others, that such oppression no longer exists.

Quote from: "rosieposy87"
The general impression given by the mainstream media (which i think i probably define more broadly than you) is of bra burners and women with pick axes going after men.


Such characterizations are only seen in the mainstream media as indictive as sexism. Bzzt.

Quote from: "rosieposy87"
While it is not commented on in the newspapers or on the news in specific stories the general concept of feminism is portrayed as very radical.


I read the San Francisco Chronicle and the Santa Rosa Press Democrat daily. The only mention of feminism is in editorials. These editorials are almost exclusively written by feminists. Bzzt.

Quote from: "rosieposy87"
I have access to every mainstream American news network on my tv.


Ok. So start citing recent stories that you felt characterized feminism as man-hating.

Quote from: "rosieposy87"
On the BBC i constantly hear american reporters. So i think i have a vague idea.


About as vague an idea as I get from listening to BBC on shortwave.

Quote from: "rosieposy87"
The glass ceiling still exists- i see these quotas as simply rectifying a problem in society which is still rampant. In fact, i heard a programme just the other day which reported that women in high powered business jobs today was nearly exactly the same as it was in the 80s.


You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. The oppurtunity is there for all women. Why aren't they taking it?

Quote from: "rosieposy87"
Clearly women are not worse at such jobs than men- they just have not been given the chance to rise above a certain position in the company due to a) prejudice, b) a paternalistic atmosphere and c) child rearing duties and pregnancy.


Or maybe there are other reasons. Most good buisness leaders are bold, cocky, and arrogant. Those characteristics are found disproportionally in men. That could be a possible explanation. It isn't the only one. As for childrearing, if a woman cannot put in the time, she shouldn't expect a free ride.
"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." -Ozzy Osborne

Grakthis

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« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2005, 01:36:58 pm »
Will, I understand where you are going... but to suggest there is NO discrimination of females in the workplace is TERRIBLY naive, at best.

Tell me, how many corporate jobs have YOU had?
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keith

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« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2005, 06:26:12 pm »
Quote from: "rosieposy87"
Have you actually researched Feminism? Or have you just assumed this is the message of all feminists? I know you are wrong in saying that only radical feminists call themselves feminists in America.  I feel like you have just taken the media spin of feminism- and aren't fully aware of the beliefs that many feminists hold.  'Affirmative Action' is not necessarily linked to feminism- most feminists do not advocate giving women jobs for the sake of their gender.

Moreover, i doubt you have EVER been subject to discrimination- as a white, christian male so i don't think you can empathise with a situation where half of society has been discriminated against.
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Grakthis

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« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2005, 07:20:29 am »
Quote from: "keith"
Quote from: "rosieposy87"
Have you actually researched Feminism? Or have you just assumed this is the message of all feminists? I know you are wrong in saying that only radical feminists call themselves feminists in America.  I feel like you have just taken the media spin of feminism- and aren't fully aware of the beliefs that many feminists hold.  'Affirmative Action' is not necessarily linked to feminism- most feminists do not advocate giving women jobs for the sake of their gender.

Moreover, i doubt you have EVER been subject to discrimination- as a white, christian male so i don't think you can empathise with a situation where half of society has been discriminated against.
She needs to get laid...BIG TIME.


Man... you're just on FIRE with the trite, overused and obvious jokes this week.
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Scotty

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« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2005, 08:02:31 am »
wait for Keith to say something constructive  :dances:

Unoriginal Dum-Dums

joann

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Feminism
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2005, 08:10:39 am »
*yawn

keith

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« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2005, 09:38:04 am »
Quote from: "Grakthis"
Man... you're just on FIRE with the trite, overused and obvious jokes this week.
*insert some weak-ass comeback followed by the smilie here*

Quote from: "Scotty"
wait for Keith to say something constructive  :dances:

HA! In my 2+ years of being on this board, have I ever said anything constructive?  :? I'm insulted that you would imply I would have anything to say that isn't completely pointless. Jesus, what kind of troll do you people take me for?!

Quote from: "joann"
*yawn
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Scotty

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« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2005, 10:06:15 am »
Quote from: "keith"
HA! In my 2+ years of being on this board, have I ever said anything constructive?  :? I'm insulted that you would imply I would have anything to say that isn't completely pointless. Jesus, what kind of troll do you people take me for?!


catch 10 + 12...you just did say something constructive 8)

Unoriginal Dum-Dums

NoelleNC

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« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2005, 06:09:37 pm »
I think it's more important to look at the progression that's occurred recently than to ardently push for more radical changes to happen quickly. Personally, I think women's rights at this point in time are relatively good in light of what they have been in the past. I think some of the hardcore, media-frenzied feminists out there that leave a sour taste of feminism in our mouths have just tried to take things too far too fast. It's radicalism and a lot of people don't wanna listen to a belief that is so out of touch with anything they will agree with. I think it's ok that there isn't perfect equality in the work force yet because it takes a long time to change a generation's mind and the kids growing up now will (hopefully) be more open minded and more willing to accept the progression people are striving for today. And I think this about most social issues, not just feminism.

Anyway, this is a hard subject to tackle but personally I don't mind being a woman. I'd rather be a woman than a man. :lol: I guess you could say I'm not pissed off at society oppressing me because it hasn't affected me personally because of the fact that I'm female. I do think that the women who helped us achieve the sort of equality like we have now should be a little bit more appreciated than they seem to be...

vt

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« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2005, 11:10:43 pm »
My fourth grade teacher didn't shave her pits.  Does that make her a feminist?

Will

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« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2005, 12:30:42 am »
Quote from: "vt"
My fourth grade teacher didn't shave her pits.  Does that make her a feminist?


That just makes her weird.
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