McCain gets slammed!!!

[Grakthis]

The fundamentals of psychology were subject to that standard.  The stuff you  read in beginning textbooks.  You can have a scientific idea which is eloquent, but it's validity within the realm of scientific fact is still to this day subject to that standard.

Scientific fact is a misnomer.  Science doesn't believe in fact.  Only things that haven't been disproven yet.

You are simply wrong about that.  A fact is something that can be disproven or proven.  There are facts that have been establsihed enough they call them Scientific Laws. Untill disproven, if ever, they are considered true facts and constructions once established.

From the way that you state your arguments in reference to math, science, philosophy, and law, you seem confused on the standards of validity each one is subject too.

Oh, so now there's not just a standard for "science," there's a different standard for each subject?  Do you just constantly change your position until it's eventually right?  Is that how this works?

It's not a change in position!  This shows ignorance on your part.  They are called disaplines for a reason.  Acadamia would agree with me.  The standards of validity are different because each subject's aim is different in what it is supposed to establish in the material the subject's disapline deals with.

Noelle's argument is based on life science so you can throw all your references of math and philosophy kindly out the window unless you have a genius' new revelation on the matter. Which you won't do because then you wouldn't have an argument.

Right.  So, the standards of hypothetical situations are different for each science.  lolz.

No, there is a different standard with every academic disapline, for one.  And there is a different history and culture for each science.


Man.  This keeps getting better and better.

[ :roll: ]

The very fact that you have been talking about it for this amount of time and haven't attacked the very premise her whole argument is based on shows her argument is solid  --attacked it within the discipline of life science itself.  Is there any established argument you can think of that refutes her claim?  We can talk about scientific ideas all day, but in the end it has to have empirical validity, not just theoretical conjecture, to be attacked directly.

The very fact that you are named Tylor is proof in and of itself that I am right.

nonsense.

Oh, wait, we're not making up non-sensical arguments?  You actually think you're saying something relevant here?

Yes.

If someone presents a theory based on biology or life sciences and applies it to the Law, and what I attack is her application, then maybe it might occur to a few of those dozen active braincells you have left that I'm not disagreeing with her position on life sciences but instead I am disagreeing with her application of that position to the law?

I saw that from when you both started making your arguments on it.  I just want to keep you from making scientific nonsense and passing it off as legitamate.  Because obviously You don't know what the hell you are talking about in that manner.  Argue her application of it all you want, just don't touch arguments you have no idea how to approach correctly.

I think people enjoy arguing with you, but sometimes your arguments become so unweildly with BS, people are no longer concerned with making proper arguments but with correcting all the errant statements and propositions you make.  It reminds one of pruning a tree.  Sometimes after pruning all the branches with no success your best option seems to chop the tree off at the trunk.  I'm sure many of us have come to the point, at one point or another, of wanting to chop off your intellect at the neck.


I know, I know.  It's a major stretch for you.  But if you put some real time into it and think REALLY hard, it might make sense to you.

Nah, I'm already ahead of you.  You can only chop off one errant branch at a time and do a good job of it.

If it still doesn't, then I recomend you stop talking.

Not a chance.

God. Lord.

You are actually trying to preach about science and, for fucks sake, you don't even know how to spell "discipline."  Do you actually expect anyone to take the rest of your non-sense seriously?

Try providing links or quotes before you appeal to authority.  Saying "academia agrees with me" is not only stupid because, hay, academia is stupid, but it's also stupid because you provide no evidence to support it.

Then at the end, you basically say "well yeah, I really have no point here anyways."  Which is pretty much par for you Tylor.  You ramble a bunch of things that are untrue, you misuse terms, you pretend you're an intellectual and at the end you didn't even say anything anyways because you don't have the social aptitude to follow the discussion.

It's like someone walked into a discussion about 80's movies and you started telling us how awesome LOTR is and how none of us recognize the greatness of Peter Jackson.  We're not talking about that.. we're talking about Molly Ringwald.  Try to keep up.  No one is going to talk to you if you can't follow the discussion.

[NoelleNC]

1) Although a lot of what Tylor says is confusing, he is right that your arguments also often become convoluted, Grak. It seems like you pick at straws just to somehow, in some small and however extreme way, prove either that you are right or the other person is wrong (even if only in part of their argument). But sometimes your "facts" and "proof" and declarations don't ring completely true. And I don't claim to be smart enough to find every mistake you make, as I'm not profoundly knowledgable in all the topics you might claim to be an expert on, but I've noticed you do it a few times just in the debate we've had, so I can just bet you do it even more than I notice.

2) Just because someone is not an excellent or good speller, it doesn't mean that they are unintelligent and their points are automatically nullified. I know a lot of smart people who aren't the best spellers. So to say how can he expect anyone to take his thought process seriously because he misspelled discipline is, in my opinion, purposely misdirecting the conversation.

3) There is no need to make a personal attack on someone who only attacked your structure of argumentation.  

4) Grak, no matter how smart you are- honestly I can't tell because you are so full of BS on top of it - you have a level of pretension about you that's so grand I actually think it deserves applause.
   

And honestly, no hard feelings, but stop trying to be the expert on EVERYTHING. Nobody is buying it.

[rosieposy87]

And honestly, no hard feelings, but stop trying to be the expert on EVERYTHING. Nobody is buying it.

HAHAHA so true!

[Grakthis]

1) Although a lot of what Tylor says is confusing, he is right that your arguments also often become convoluted, Grak. It seems like you pick at straws just to somehow, in some small and however extreme way, prove either that you are right or the other person is wrong (even if only in part of their argument). But sometimes your "facts" and "proof" and declarations don't ring completely true. And I don't claim to be smart enough to find every mistake you make, as I'm not profoundly knowledgable in all the topics you might claim to be an expert on, but I've noticed you do it a few times just in the debate we've had, so I can just bet you do it even more than I notice.

I'm typically happy to provide references or citations on any facts i give.

2) Just because someone is not an excellent or good speller, it doesn't mean that they are unintelligent and their points are automatically nullified. I know a lot of smart people who aren't the best spellers. So to say how can he expect anyone to take his thought process seriously because he misspelled discipline is, in my opinion, purposely misdirecting the conversation.

He made an appeal to his own authority.  So I attacked that authority.  That's fair game.

3) There is no need to make a personal attack on someone who only attacked your structure of argumentation.

Oh, no.  I dislike Tylor on a personal level.  That's been ongoing for years.  I made personal attacks because I dislike him.

4) Grak, no matter how smart you are- honestly I can't tell because you are so full of BS on top of it - you have a level of pretension about you that's so grand I actually think it deserves applause.
   

I accept all applause, even the sarcastic kind.

And honestly, no hard feelings, but stop trying to be the expert on EVERYTHING. Nobody is buying it.

I am not an expert on everything.  Only the things I argue about >:3

[tylor2000]

I have alot of respect for grakthis' way of stimulating conversation like this, but once under way I don't agree with all of his methods of defending his arguments.  Most everyone who really gets to know me doesn't like me so by general consensus I understand his dislike for me.  It's pretty common.  More than you might know.  So I'm saying it is pretty justified.

This thread isn't really about me and most of my points of contention have long passed.  Can we move on because I was really enjoying reading the conversation and how you guys were carrying it after my first post of this interruption. Thanks.

[portions.for.foxes]

Jesus Tylor, learn to defend yourself once and awhile. There's absolutely no reason for you to justify Andrew acting like a dick.

[Laura]

holy crap & i thought the thread i was arguing in was bad..i dont think i've ever seen a nessaholic argument this bad.

where in the hell are the mods

[twilightcarnival]

holy crap & i thought the thread i was arguing in was bad..i dont think i've ever seen a nessaholic argument this bad.

where in the hell are the mods

Um, I think Grak is a mod... =/
Yeah this a pretty intense argument. But I agree with Noelle, Grak stop arguing with EVERYTHING. You always have to have to prove that you are right and everyone else is wrong don't you?

Ahaha Tylor I love your sig by the way.

[NoelleNC]

Tylor, I think you are a nice guy. I don't think most people hate you at all. I think people sometimes get frustrated at your individual posts, but I think most people are familiar enough with you to know you mean well and are friendly when it comes down to it. And honestly, there aren't enough friendly people in this world.

Although he may never want to hear it, Grak could actually learn something from you about being polite and considerate. . . Anything he says is filtered through his rudeness and arrogance before it makes its way to any of us.

And I'd keep on debating if he would stop spinning everything out of proportion to the point that it is no longer even relevant or interesting for me to retort on.

[NoelleNC]

holy crap & i thought the thread i was arguing in was bad..i dont think i've ever seen a nessaholic argument this bad.

where in the hell are the mods

Um, I think Grak is a mod... =/
Yeah this a pretty intense argument. But I agree with Noelle, Grak stop arguing with EVERYTHING. You always have to have to prove that you are right and everyone else is wrong don't you?

Ahaha Tylor I love your sig by the way.

I don't think Grak is a mod. His name is not in green and such.

And I don't think this thread should be locked or anything of the sort. Sure Grak called me stupid and Tylor stupid and socially inept - in so many words - but we all know that degrading remarks are just Grak's way of shocking us into not seeing his flawed arguments ... I mean perfectly provable, expert replies...  :roll:

But it's fun, no?

[twilightcarnival]

holy crap & i thought the thread i was arguing in was bad..i dont think i've ever seen a nessaholic argument this bad.

where in the hell are the mods

Um, I think Grak is a mod... =/
Yeah this a pretty intense argument. But I agree with Noelle, Grak stop arguing with EVERYTHING. You always have to have to prove that you are right and everyone else is wrong don't you?

Ahaha Tylor I love your sig by the way.

I don't think Grak is a mod. His name is not in green and such.

And I don't think this thread should be locked or anything of the sort. Sure Grak called me stupid and Tylor stupid and socially inept - in so many words - but we all know that degrading remarks are just Grak's way of shocking us into not seeing his flawed arguments ... I mean perfectly provable, expert replies...  :roll:

But it's fun, no?

He's not a mod? Huh? Then what's the little unicorn thing by his name for? God I'm so confused...

[NoelleNC]

Idk, but I notice Rosie has one too and I'm pretty sure she is not a mod.



Edit: I was bored so I checked out Andrew's website and I found a spelling error. Dear lord!!

But Andrew, Better Than Ezra is my favorite band. At least we have something in common. lol.

[tylor2000]

You guys don't have to defend me.  I know when to defend myself.  I never said people hated me I said most people in RL don't like me.  You guys only know me over the internet and live 3000 miles away or on another continent.  You might think Grakthis is just being a dick but he didn't come to this conclusion overnight in some stupid soupdujour statement or jen meaness.  There is history here you might not be aware of.  Truth is very important to me and I understand his conclusions.  I like myself and who I am so that is what counts.

[tylor2000]

holy crap & i thought the thread i was arguing in was bad..i dont think i've ever seen a nessaholic argument this bad.

where in the hell are the mods

Um, I think Grak is a mod... =/
Yeah this a pretty intense argument. But I agree with Noelle, Grak stop arguing with EVERYTHING. You always have to have to prove that you are right and everyone else is wrong don't you?

Ahaha Tylor I love your sig by the way.

I don't think Grak is a mod. His name is not in green and such.

And I don't think this thread should be locked or anything of the sort. Sure Grak called me stupid and Tylor stupid and socially inept - in so many words - but we all know that degrading remarks are just Grak's way of shocking us into not seeing his flawed arguments ... I mean perfectly provable, expert replies...  :roll:

But it's fun, no?

Yeah, I don't think the thread needs to be locked.  I like the conversations being made here and don't see a reason for it to be locked.  There is an intelligence and maturity in threads like this you don't see in other places.  People have a sense of when to hold back outtight attacks you see in other arguments on the board.

[Laura]

yeah Grak isnt a mod (i bet he wishes lol). the unicorn is for the "vc unicorn brigade" or something like that. only some fans are in it, ones that went above & beyond for other fans.

& tylor, I love your sig too <3