Do you think creationism should be banned in schools?

[Morgan]

And just because evolution is complex and it is still being studied doesn't make creationism any more true. Creationism is more faulty then evolution.

I think I know why you say that, and why I say that evolution is more questionable.
I think it's because you learned way more about evolution than I did, and I learned way more about creation than you did.

This whole "argument", or "debate" really brings a great deal of questions into my religion, and challenges it, which I like.
I would like to ask a question, that I do not mean to be in any way arrogent. It is a innocent question.
What is wrong with creationism for you?
 
Also, what questions do you have about it that make it so impossible?

I've always wanted to know what's so wrong with it, so answering those questions would be a great deal of help for me to get to know what's so wrong with it.

[Moogs21]

I regard the creation story as just a story. It was an attempt of early man to explain how people came to be, and why. All of the early religions/cultures have one. There are also various other stories that explain things that happen in nature. I respect the creation story, because people back then when it was made up, didn't have science or anything to explain what happened.
I think it was acceptable for them to believe it now, but now that we have science telling us something different, with a lot more data to swing that way, why keep believing in these stories?

I can't stand it when people use the Bible as proof of creationism. What horrible, circular logic that is (God wrote the Bible, the Bible proves God exists/creationism is real). The Bible, is at best, inspired by God. Even if it was directly inspired by God, the Bible is not 100% as it was thousands of years ago, and anyone who does believe that is very mistaken and needs to do a history lesson. The Bible has been cut, edited, and added to many, many times.

Anyway, all in all, no one knows 100% about either way. I wouldn't recommend anyone to pretend that they do. However, evidence highly supports evolution, and not creationism. Although evolution may be faulty, creationism is much, much more faulty.

[heyheyitsaiste]

well, for one creationism would be 100x more believable if there was one story instead of 900000+ that every religion has come up with. in fact, religion would be 100x more believable if there weren't 80000+ of them.

Also, I find it hard to believe that someone can say "Let there be light" and they can create day, it would be ridiculously difficult to create all the elements of day without first creating the sun, moon, and the stars.

I guess because the world is so complex and so endless that it's reasonable to think a "higher being" might've created it but science has mostly disproved the idea of creationism and creationism is not at all realistic, especially the way it's described. It was more reasonable to believe in creationism when the world wasn't so scientifically advanced. I agree with Moogs, it's simply a story.

Anyways, I just don't feel that religion benefits me in any way.

[Morgan]

I regard the creation story as just a story. It was an attempt of early man to explain how people came to be, and why. All of the early religions/cultures have one. There are also various other stories that explain things that happen in nature. I respect the creation story, because people back then when it was made up, didn't have science or anything to explain what happened.
I think it was acceptable for them to believe it now, but now that we have science telling us something different, with a lot more data to swing that way, why keep believing in these stories?

I can't stand it when people use the Bible as proof of creationism. What horrible, circular logic that is (God wrote the Bible, the Bible proves God exists/creationism is real). The Bible, is at best, inspired by God. Even if it was directly inspired by God, the Bible is not 100% as it was thousands of years ago, and anyone who does believe that is very mistaken and needs to do a history lesson. The Bible has been cut, edited, and added to many, many times.

Anyway, all in all, no one knows 100% about either way. I wouldn't recommend anyone to pretend that they do. However, evidence highly supports evolution, and not creationism. Although evolution may be faulty, creationism is much, much more faulty.

I understand why you would be saying this. That is very logical of you to explain this way. You are close when you say that the Bible was inspired by God, because being a Christian, I do believe that the Bible was written through man, by God.
I know this proves nothing to you, as you are not being forced to believe in Creationism, but two years ago in science, I learned that the Bible is actually one of the oldest books that passes the "history test". Through all these years, it did actually remain quite the same.

[Morgan]

well, for one creationism would be 100x more believable if there was one story instead of 900000+ that every religion has come up with. in fact, religion would be 100x more believable if there weren't 80000+ of them.

Also, I find it hard to believe that someone can say "Let there be light" and they can create day, it would be ridiculously difficult to create all the elements of day without first creating the sun, moon, and the stars.

I guess because the world is so complex and so endless that it's reasonable to think a "higher being" might've created it but science has mostly disproved the idea of creationism and creationism is not at all realistic, especially the way it's described. It was more reasonable to believe in creationism when the world wasn't so scientifically advanced. I agree with Moogs, it's simply a story.

Anyways, I just don't feel that religion benefits me in any way.

That's completely fine for you, if you don't think that it helps you in life, then don't fuss with it right now, but that doesn't mean you have to be completely closed-minded to it. In turn, THAT doesn't mean you have to believe everything you hear, or for that matter, /anything/ you hear. I just hope that if you meet anyone new in your life that has the same sort of beliefs as I do, you don't get lead to calling them stupid or having improper logic for believing such a "story". I doubt that you are disrespectful to anyone just because of their religion, though.

But I do have a question about evolution's "religion". What is so satisfying about it for you, other than in scientific terms?

[Moogs21]

I don't believe the Bible to be totally faulty. I loosely believe in the New Testament. I guess the boils down to my lack of faith in organized religion. Most men have motives, whether good or bad, therefor all men who altered the bible have left their imprint on it somehow.
This actually reminds me of a paper I wrote for my philosophy class that was trying to prove or disprove God's existence. I wrote a couple of proofs about what I don't believe fully in the Bible, or in organized religion.
I view the Bible as a general guideline full of inspirational stories and wisdom from Jesus. I think it's trouble if you look too much further than that.

Anyway, I must thank you for your patience. I guess most people I discuss creationism with are far too scared to be challenged. I find it always healthy to discuss and understand the other side, because without that knowledge, you really have not made a choice, now have you!

Also, do you go to a Christian school? Just wondering.

[Morgan]

It sounds like you have at least a loose idea of the main thing you believe, and as anybody grows up, they would be able to shape such a thing.
Yeah, most people are also too stubborn with creationism to talk about it in such a manner as I do, I guess.

I am homeschooled, and my family are christians.

[Nancy Drew]

If you want to learn creationism, they should teach it at church. You shouldn't subject kids to learning religious ideology at a school. I have no problem with people believing whatever they want but don't force it onto anyone else. I'm not an atheist. I believe in God but I don't believe in organized religion.

Then they shouldn't teach evolution at school so the creationist families/children aren't subject to evolution teachings.

[LimeTwister]

But there are hard-based facts and evidence that support evolution...with creationism, you have to have faith.

One IS science, the other is not.

[Morgan]

Both are science, if you look into it and learn it, and both require faith.
For a evolutionist, do you not just have to believe that all these facts that scientists are throwing out, are correct?
Do you not have to just assume that everything up to this point is more correct then anything?

With creationism, it is very much the same concept.

[LimeTwister]

It's really not the same concept.  I can prove I have a rock, you cannot prove there is an afterlife.  I do not have to have faith that it is a rock.  I can hold the rock in my hand, I know what the components of a rock are, and I can pick it up off the ground myself.  I can test and retest the evidence of evolution.  

You can give me a historical context of the religion, lay out a plan to live my life in a "holy" way, tell me that there is a God, tell me I have to have faith because you cannot see this God, and then proclaim that your God is better than the Muslim God, even though they are the same.  Faith can get people through tough times, but it can create tough times as well.

We are evolving now...everything is.

The theories and histories surrounding MANY DIFFERENT religions should be taught in a history class but not branded as science at the high school level.

[Morgan]

It's really not the same concept.  I can prove I have a rock, you cannot prove there is an afterlife.  I do not have to have faith that it is a rock.  

Cheesy as all this may sound that I am about to say, but faith is my rock, and I'm building on it everyday as I learn more about what I believe.
There is a poem we have on the wall at our house it says:
"Just because you can't see the air, doesn't stop you from breathing,
And just because you can't see God, doesn't stop you from believing."

There's something just so fufilling and wonderful to know, and believe that there is a higher power watching out for you, and being someone to listen to you whenever you are going through hard times, and although God can't love you physically (hug you and hold you), doesn't mean you can't feel it. When you don't believe, there is no way I can make you, or would make you, if your mind wasn't open to it yet, but I'm just saying, I love knowing that there is more to this world than just living, and to know if I live it out right, I could go to a much better place after my death. I heard somewhere that someone said "The purpose for life is to prepare yourself for Heaven." or something like that, and I know that this is true, and I know that I will do everything I can to do what God wants me to do, and as long as it makes me a good person, you don't have to hold it against me that I'm doing this for something you don't believe exists, because I am trying the best I can to be the best I can be.

[LimeTwister]

I am not disagreeing with you, and I am glad that you have that faith.  However, and this doesn't really pertain to you because you are homeschooled, religion should not be "preached" at public schools at the high school level.  

I don't mean to say someone should not believe in a religion, if that is what fulfills them.  Nevertheless, religion is a personal thing and not everyone has the same religious beliefs.  At the high school level, evolution is not taught as a religion or a replacement for religion.  (I understand not everyone "believes" in evoltuion--but it is not a religion, and that is the point.)

[zurielshimon]

When I first read this thread, I wanted to reply with "What the fuck is wrong with you people?!", but I realized that wouldn't be too smart, so I decided to think about it for a minute before I said anything.

What is creationism, anyway?  For so many people to be taking offense to it, there must be some kind of misunderstanding somewhere.

The theory of evolution is little more than speculation.  Fossil evidence and existing species suggest it, but it hasn't been sufficiently observed in practice to call it fact.

There is, however, at least just as much evidence to suggest that the universe and everything in it was intelligently designed and didn't just happen over time by itself.  Whether you want to call the deisgner God or Hubujutufitikiwawa is entirely up to you, but even without involving religion, it is easy to see that far too many "coincidences" exist in the universe to leave it at that.

Whether the universe was created in 7 days or billions of years is also scientifically unprovable.  Either no one was here to keep a reliable record of those events, or no record has survived.  Existing evidence can only point to possibilities.

Personally, I believe God did create the universe and everything in it.  There was a specific order and purpose in every step of the process.  Whether it took seven days or billions of years is irrelevant because time before time was measured is simply that - unmeasured, unmeasurable time.  And as for the evolutionary process, I do believe that species change over time, but only at the hand of their Creator.  And did man come from monkeys?  A 1991 Buick Park Avenue looks largely similar to a 1990 Park Avenue.  They share many of the same parts and styling details. But 1990 Park Avenues did not just start giving birth to 1991's.  They were designed and built by the same group of creators, one after the other with intent and purpose, as an improvement and better version of the other.

While I wouldn't advocate preaching in public schools because people in this country have every right to be heathen if they so choose, I certainly don't believe that evolution theory should be taught without a design-and-creation theory be taught also, because there is sufficient scientific evidence to suggest either one.

[Morgan]

When I first read this thread, I wanted to reply with "What the fuck is wrong with you people?!", but I realized that wouldn't be too smart, so I decided to think about it for a minute before I said anything.

What is creationism, anyway?  For so many people to be taking offense to it, there must be some kind of misunderstanding somewhere.

The theory of evolution is little more than speculation.  Fossil evidence and existing species suggest it, but it hasn't been sufficiently observed in practice to call it fact.

There is, however, at least just as much evidence to suggest that the universe and everything in it was intelligently designed and didn't just happen over time by itself.  Whether you want to call the deisgner God or Hubujutufitikiwawa is entirely up to you, but even without involving religion, it is easy to see that far too many "coincidences" exist in the universe to leave it at that.

Whether the universe was created in 7 days or billions of years is also scientifically unprovable.  Either no one was here to keep a reliable record of those events, or no record has survived.  Existing evidence can only point to possibilities.

Personally, I believe God did create the universe and everything in it.  There was a specific order and purpose in every step of the process.  Whether it took seven days or billions of years is irrelevant because time before time was measured is simply that - unmeasured, unmeasurable time.  And as for the evolutionary process, I do believe that species change over time, but only at the hand of their Creator.  And did man come from monkeys?  A 1991 Buick Park Avenue looks largely similar to a 1990 Park Avenue.  They share many of the same parts and styling details. But 1990 Park Avenues did not just start giving birth to 1991's.  They were designed and built by the same group of creators, one after the other with intent and purpose, as an improvement and better version of the other.

While I wouldn't advocate preaching in public schools because people in this country have every right to be heathen if they so choose, I certainly don't believe that evolution theory should be taught without a design-and-creation theory be taught also, because there is sufficient scientific evidence to suggest either one.

Yes.