Author Topic: Gay and Christian, need some help.  (Read 14085 times)

ReSpektDaFrenziedEVanesSa

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Gay and Christian, need some help.
« on: April 15, 2008, 05:06:31 pm »
Hey, guys, I posted a question on Yahoo Answers and it's about to expire so Im just posting my question on here to see if I can get any more helpful responses. All answers are appreciated. Thank you all. Peace.

Fellow Christians, help me out here. I'm a Chrisitian, but I am also homosexual. I know that the Bible says being gay is an abomination, but it also says that eating shrimp and lobster and wearing clothes that are made of more than one material are abominable things too. Also, doesn't the Bible say that Jesus surrounded himself with the outcasts of society? Who better represents the outcasts of this day and age than the LGBT community? Pastors say "God's grace is limitless", and that gives me hope that He would accept me, but others say God condemns the gays, which scares me. People say God loves all His children, so why shouldn't He love me? Am I not a child of God? And is it not also said that God has a plan for all of us? Wouldn't that make this part of God's plans for me? If it is part of His plan, who am I to deny it? This is all really confusing, and I'm not sure what to think, where to turn, or what to do. It blows my mind to think that one wrong decision in this short life could make my entire eternal life hell. Eternity is a long time. I'm afraid. I'm deathly scared for my soul and I just need a little help. Thank you all.

So, from what I'm reading, it looks like I can be gay, but I can't live a gay life. Is that right, because it doesn't make sense that God would want to take love from me. Maybe I'm naive. Thanks for all of you who are truly helping.

Ok, wherever I ask this question, I get the answer: "Gay: acceptable, gay lifestyle: condemned". What do you all mean by gay lifestyle? If you mean just sleeping around with men like we're all man-whores and callboys, you couldn't be farther from the truth, because I can say that as a gay male, I don't think fornication is right. But if by gay lifestyle, you just mean having sex with men, married or not, does that mean I'm supposed to stay celibate all my life? Thanks again to everyone who's helping, all answers are indescribably appreciated.

If it is at all relelvant to anyone out there, my AIM screen name is Respekt218. Feel free to contact me about this issue, even after I've chosen an answer.

iKnowWhatYouDid

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Gay and Christian, need some help.
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2008, 07:06:24 pm »
I know the basic Catholic teaching is that being homosexual is completely fine, but homosexual actions, i.e. sex, is wrong because it is not both unitive and procreative.  However, every teacher or priest I've ever asked seems to agree that if 2 men or 2 women love each other, they should be able to show it and be intimate.

I'm Catholic, but I think being gay is not a choice but just a part of someone, and God accepts that, and gay people shouldn't have to miss out on anything, including sex.

Hope that helped a little...

Logikal X

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Gay and Christian, need some help.
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2008, 06:57:02 am »
Gays arent the outcasts of society around here!
Quote from: "ReSpektDaFrenziedEVanesSa"
But I have to say I love the feeling of anything going up my butt, it just drives me wild.

Will

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Re: Gay and Christian, need some help.
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2008, 09:09:15 am »
Not that I hate on gays or anything, but the Bible says what it does, regardless of what you want to believe.

Quote from: "ReSpektDaFrenziedEVanesSa"
Fellow Christians, help me out here. I'm a Chrisitian, but I am also homosexual. I know that the Bible says being gay is an abomination, but it also says that eating shrimp and lobster and wearing clothes that are made of more than one material are abominable things too.


I'll actually quote the relevant dietary and clothing laws.

Quote
Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams, you may eat any that have fins and scales. But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to detest. And since you are to detest them, you must not eat their meat and you must detest their carcasses. Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be detestable to you.

Leviticus 11:9-12


Quote

Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

Leviticus 19:19(d)


The first is a purity law. It isn't sinful to eat those things, but it will make you ritually unpure and unfit for admission to the temple. Oops, that doesn't exist anymore. Besides, the dream Peter had said this doesn't matter anymore. The second is just a random proclamation that doesn't explain itself. It doesn't carry any moral weight. It isn't sinful to do otherwise. It's just a piece of advice you had better follow because God said so.

Let's look at the laws on gay sex.

Quote
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Leviticus 18:22


Quote
If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what id detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Leviticus 20:13


Plus, there is more. This is clearly sinful according to the Bible, while the other things you mentioned are not.

 
Quote from: "ReSpektDaFrenziedEVanesSa"
Also, doesn't the Bible say that Jesus surrounded himself with the outcasts of society? Who better represents the outcasts of this day and age than the LGBT community?


He hung out with sinners and told them, "Repent and sin no more." If gay sex is really sinful, you're expected to stop it when you follow Christ. My take on it is a bit different, though. Gay sex is seen as sinful because it is disobeying God's first command to humans: Be fruitful and multiply. Perhaps with almost 7 billion people on this planet, this is no longer holds?

 
Quote from: "ReSpektDaFrenziedEVanesSa"
Pastors say "God's grace is limitless", and that gives me hope that He would accept me, but others say God condemns the gays, which scares me.


God condemns ALL sinners. All of us are sinners, no matter how righteous we try to be. "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23.

 
Quote from: "ReSpektDaFrenziedEVanesSa"
People say God loves all His children, so why shouldn't He love me? Am I not a child of God? And is it not also said that God has a plan for all of us? Wouldn't that make this part of God's plans for me? If it is part of His plan, who am I to deny it? This is all really confusing, and I'm not sure what to think, where to turn, or what to do. It blows my mind to think that one wrong decision in this short life could make my entire eternal life hell. Eternity is a long time. I'm afraid. I'm deathly scared for my soul and I just need a little help. Thank you all.


God loves you like he loves everyone else, regardless of their sin. People sin and that isn't part of God's plan for them. Regardless of whether or not gay sex is a sin,* by putting faith in Jesus, your sins are forgiven. All of them. As long as you accept that gift, you're ok. Don't worry about it. Just pray about it. God's answer to you is the only one that really counts, anyway.

Sorry if this whole post came off as mean or something. The Bible disagrees with a lot of modern thought and is hardly "progressive."

* Just because the Bible says so doesn't mean that it is, it was, after all, written by imperfect men. It might have also been sinful in the past because the population of the world needed to grow, but this is no longer true and it might no longer be sinful.
"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." -Ozzy Osborne

amberbeads

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Re: Gay and Christian, need some help.
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2008, 10:17:56 am »
Quote from: "Will"
God loves you like he loves everyone else, regardless of their sin. People sin and that isn't part of God's plan for them. Regardless of whether or not gay sex is a sin,* by putting faith in Jesus, your sins are forgiven. All of them. As long as you accept that gift, you're ok. Don't worry about it. Just pray about it. God's answer to you is the only one that really counts, anyway.


yep. I'm a "Christian" but i basically don't run with the whole church/Bible thing at all. I believe in Jesus, etc, and I repent, but the only real doctrine i follow is that my God loves everyone, regardless. i thought that was supposed to be the basis of Christianity, anyways, that God was benevolent and loved and forgave all? oh well. even if it's not, that's what I believe.
*natalie*



at least i can say
i was not afraid
i loved you all the way
i'd pick the fool any day.

charmedguy18

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Gay and Christian, need some help.
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2008, 02:29:45 pm »
I think organized religions under the God of Abraham are all mind-control tools. As of now, I follow no religion, though I was raised Christian. My mother (who completely accepts me, but for some reason did this anyway) brought me to the pastor of our old church and he told me it's okay to be gay, but it's not okay to act on it. As in, having sex.
If I were ever to be christian again, which I doubt, I will believe that the bible was written by men ignorant of the fact homosexuals exist unintentionally, and it's no choice of ours (I'm gay, as everyone on Earth knows now, since you joined the club). They were supposedly inspired by God, meaning it wasn't his words, and that means not everything they wrote was what he allegedly wanted them to say.
I'm sorry, but after being rejected by "people of peace," and being harassed and tormented to the point that I have permenent, severe, medication-resisitant depression by those people who call themselves that... I can't accept that any God would allow that. If he could inspire people back then, he could do it today, and I know that if he's real, then he made me and all gays how they are, and more and more people should be "inspired," with acceptance. But they haven't. There are accepting people, but even those who are accepting on the outside aren't. I can read people like a book, and I know if they are telling the truth when they say that they accept me. I know many of them are saying that to be PC and not cause drama, or to be part of the "non-conformist," movement.
Okay, end of rant.

ReSpektDaFrenziedEVanesSa

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Gay and Christian, need some help.
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2008, 03:52:33 pm »
Will, thank you for clearing up all that Bible mess, but I'm not sure I understand whether or not you're saying it is or isn't okay to be gay and/or have gay sex.

You all are being so helpful, and you have no idea how much it means to me that you would even care enough to take the time to try to help. Innumerable thanks. I'll keep praying on this, but I'm still not sure. Thank all of you so so much fro helping, all answers are appreciated.

charmedguy18

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Gay and Christian, need some help.
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2008, 05:21:17 pm »
Quote from: "ReSpektDaFrenziedEVanesSa"

 I'll keep praying on this, but I'm still not sure.

Oh! That reminds me another reason I left the church... Praying doesn't do shit. =/

ReSpektDaFrenziedEVanesSa

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« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2008, 05:48:54 pm »
Quote from: "charmedguy18"
As of now, I follow no religion,


Wow, I wish I could be a non-believer, but I'm too much of a scaredy-cat thinking "What if there is a God?" in which case, i'd be completely screwed, but since there's no way to know for sure, I'll just keep believeing. Not trying to bash your beliefs, believe watever you want.

zurielshimon

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Gay and Christian, need some help.
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2008, 11:45:58 am »
I claim to be an Enlightened Baptist, if you will.  Let me try to put together an answer.  Now what I'm about to say may start out sounding like moral relativism (rationalizing what you do because it's "not as bad" as what other people are doing), but I don't condone that at all.  I just want to put things into perspective.  That said, here's my answer:

People don't go to hell because they're gay.  People don't go to hell because they eat "unclean" food.  They don't go to hell because they steal or commit adultery.  Everyone is going to hell because no one is righteous and nothing anyone can do can ever change that, no matter how "good" they try to be in life, or how many animals they burn on an altar.  But there's hope.

When God sent his son Jesus, he was to be the perfect sacrifice for the atonement of everyone's sin, all sin, forever and ever, and whoever will accept that freely given gift of forgiveness shall be saved from hellfire.

And don't let anyone tell you that you can ever "lose" your salvation once saved.  God's salvation is a complete process.  When your sin is forgiven, it is all forgiven.  If it weren't, it would not be forgiven at all because Jesus did not die for only some of a person's sin.  Jesus has already paid for all of the sins of all who have accepted him, are accepting him now, and will ever accept him in the future.  God already knows who they are.

Think of a person who is divorced and has remarried.  This is an unbiblical act.  God never said this was okay, and as such, the new marriage amounts to adultery because there is no provision given in the Bible for a divorce, short of death.  But if the husband and wife have accepted Jesus, their actions shall be forgiven.

Now here's the part where you have to be careful:  Receiving this unlimited forgiveness is not a license to continue to live in sin.  It is the vindication from sin, and if you are forgiven you no longer have to live in sin.  But no one is expected to be perfect, and if a forgiven Christian continues to sin, it shall be forgiven.  God knows us and loves us, and no one who has been forgiven shall ever be in danger of hellfire, but that doesn't mean we no longer have to pray and ask forgiveness once forgiven.  We should continue to pray and have a relationship with God, because while we won't go to hell after our death, we can certainly live in hell on Earth by separating ourselves from God.
Dustin

ReSpektDaFrenziedEVanesSa

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« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2008, 03:01:31 pm »
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
Now here's the part where you have to be careful:  Receiving this unlimited forgiveness is not a license to continue to live in sin.  It is the vindication from sin, and if you are forgiven you no longer have to live in sin.  But no one is expected to be perfect, and if a forgiven Christian continues to sin, it shall be forgiven.  God knows us and loves us, and no one who has been forgiven shall ever be in danger of hellfire, but that doesn't mean we no longer have to pray and ask forgiveness once forgiven.  We should continue to pray and have a relationship with God, because while we won't go to hell after our death, we can certainly live in hell on Earth by separating ourselves from God.


Thank you for that, it certainly helps. But it would seem that what you are saying is that it is impossible to go to hell, and that doesn't make sense. How do I accept Jesus, how do I get forgiveness for my sins, and how will I know that I am saved?

MeganJane

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« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2008, 09:43:35 pm »
I went to a Bible College a few years ago, and wrote an essay about Gay Christians. I believe I did a good job, but because I reached a different conclusion than is commonly accepted, I wasn't graded highly for my efforts... and I am straight). Nothing in this post is taken from my essay though; I wrote this quickly so sorry if it's not well-written.

When I get the chance I will find it and post some links to a website you may find helpful. It contains a pro-gay article written by a heterosexual Christian minister exploring mistranslations in the Bible that cause people to believe that being a homosexual is an abomination. (I can't vouch for the accuracy of his teachings as I do not understand the original languages of the Bible, but it seems to make sense to me.)

There are 4 main attitudes of Christians towards gays:

1. "God Hates Fags". These "Christians" are hateful towards not just homosexuality but also homosexuals themselves.  Their attitude is that homosexuality is a sin, and the sinners are going to hell; good riddance.
(I hope everyone here is as disgusted by that as me)

2. "Hate the sin, not the sinner". It's a sin, but not a "worse" sin than lying, stealing, etc. This attitude is more "tolerant". Most Christians probably fall in this category. (I have no proof, but it's what it seems like to me personally). They feel this way because it's how thay have been taught; it's how their Bibles have been translated, and they believe it because to them it is the Word of God. Many believe that homosexuality is an affliction that can be "cured" through God's love. (Which may be possible for some people because they may be straight but turn to relationships with the same sex due to some kind of traumatic experience with the opposite sex, and so if their pain is healed, then so is the "homosexuality" because they can now have a healthy relationship with the opposite gender again. People in this category usually don't believe that a person can be inherently homosexual, and that homosexuality can be a natural preference that will develop within a person without being a case of cause and effect.)

3. "It's OK to be gay.... just don't have sex".  Some Christians believe that it's not a sin to be homosexual, but it is a sin to act on it, ie. have sexual relations even within a marriage-like partership.

4. "It's okay". This is probably not a large percentage, but some Christians believe that homosexuality is not an illness or affliction, but it is something that a person is born with, and if God made a person that way, then it is not a sin to be homosexual, and sex within a loving, comitted union is acceptable. They believe that passages in the Bible concerning homosexuality are either mistranslated, or don't matter because many of the rules in the Bible are seen as irrelavent (such as the aforementioned scriptures concerning seafood and clothing.)

There are probably more viewpoints but I think these are the main attitudes. My point is that not all Christians think or feel the same. You don't have to think or feel the same as Christian X, Y or Z either.

Please stay strong. Much of what Christians are expected to follow, and much of what they judge other people over, is not even in the Bible. Many "laws" are man-made, not set by God/Jesus. Pray for discernment, so that you may grow strong in your faith and be able to work out yourself (but with God's guidance) what is right and wrong for YOU. There will always be people who will look down on you (not only you, but every single person) for whatever reason, and will tell you that you are wrong in some way, but if you have a strong relationship with God, then it is His opinion and your own opinion of yourself that matters.

I hope this helps
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MeganJane

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« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2008, 10:21:05 pm »
Quote from: "ReSpektDaFrenziedEVanesSa"
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
Now here's the part where you have to be careful:  Receiving this unlimited forgiveness is not a license to continue to live in sin.  It is the vindication from sin, and if you are forgiven you no longer have to live in sin.  But no one is expected to be perfect, and if a forgiven Christian continues to sin, it shall be forgiven.  God knows us and loves us, and no one who has been forgiven shall ever be in danger of hellfire, but that doesn't mean we no longer have to pray and ask forgiveness once forgiven.  We should continue to pray and have a relationship with God, because while we won't go to hell after our death, we can certainly live in hell on Earth by separating ourselves from God.


Thank you for that, it certainly helps. But it would seem that what you are saying is that it is impossible to go to hell, and that doesn't make sense. How do I accept Jesus, how do I get forgiveness for my sins, and how will I know that I am saved?


I think he means that Christians can't go to hell but non-Christians do go to hell. I understand what he said but sometimes its helpful to hear it said in another way. (Or I may make no sense to you, lol. I'm explaining this belief, and trying to keep my own personal opinions out of it.). The reason Christians don't go to hell even if they keep on sinning (they all do, it's pretty much impossible not to seeing as they are human) is because at the point of their salvation- the point at which they become "Born Again" (Jesus talks of this in the Bible; other terminology I've heard commonly used is "letting Jesus into your heart", or "getting saved", neither of which is mentioned in the Bible... another one is "becoming a new creation in Christ", which is sourced from the Bible) then your sins are forgiven completely, which means you get the proverbial "ticket to Heaven", and even when you sin again, your ticket is not forfeited. If you truly love God though, you're not going to want to keep on sinning just because you've got your ticket. You're going to want to please Him by trying your best to follow Jesus' example, which means turning away from sin. No-one's perfect though, so when you slip up you will be sorry for displeasing God and you will pray for forgiveness. If however, you don't love God, then how can you be "saved" in the first place?  God knows your thoughts and your heart, so if you pray and don't mean it, then its not valid and you're not "saved". For example, it's generally accepted that if you are a Christian, and you go and get hit by a bus and die after you've just committed a sin and haven't prayed for forgiveness yet, then you'll still go to Heaven.
You will know that you are "saved" if you sincerely believe the Gospel (if anyone needs clarification on what this means I am happy to explain it to you, just ask) and love and accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour. This involves developing a relationship with Him through prayer.
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nicole

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« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2008, 10:38:13 pm »
I'm no pro in religious matters as I'm not a believer!  However, if you have any gay issues... I might be helpful.  I've been working with LGBT youth for 4 years.

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« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2008, 08:31:45 am »
I'm proud to call myself a Christian, but I try not to proselytize, nor do I judge people too harshly.  I'm older than most of you here, and when I was your age, I did struggle with God as a being/concept.  

Don't knock yourself out, trying to find answers that are unavailable to us mortals. Look inside your own heart.  Treat people as well as you can, and try not to hurt them, help them if you can.  This, to me, is the essence of Christianity.

People are not black or white; they are shades of grey at best.  They do good things and bad things.  To me, it's no one's business what you do behind closed doors as long as you're not hurting someone.  And I reject the term "sexual preference"; what does it for you does it for you.  This is coming from a straight guy.

Be a good person, try not to hate, always do the right thing.  If that doesn't get you into heaven.....uh, you and I are both in big trouble!



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