Author Topic: Gay Marriage  (Read 4361 times)

Laura

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Gay Marriage
« on: June 30, 2005, 10:35:00 pm »
Okay so I have to write an argument essay for my English 101 class in college (fun I know) & I am just so stuck cuz I hate arguing about political issues & such cuz I don't know much about most of them to really proove something you know. So I decided to do my paper on Gay Marriage. I couldn't find topics here about this that really went into what people thought. So what do you guys think of Gay Marriage. If you think they should have the same rights as us, explain why you think that & if you don't, do the same. I just need some ideas to get me started like on my thesis so I can go from there.

Thanks guys. Hope this topic is alright... I was kinda debating if I should post it or not. But I need help cuz this is the hardest essay we have to do & I've never been this stuck on what to talk about in an essay before.  :?

Btw, the side I'm on is I think they should have the same rights as us.

B

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Gay Marriage
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2005, 10:42:22 pm »
I cringed when I saw this topic, because I know it is going to lead to arguing, lol.

... one word of advice, don't. Discuss, but play nice. I have a whip, don't make me use it  :wink:  :whip:.
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Laura

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« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2005, 11:34:13 pm »
Yeah normally I wouldn't have made a topic like this but it's just to get help for my paper a little bit cuz I am just lost as to where to start. But yeah, I agree with Brian, lol I don't want arguing in this thread either.

kev222

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Gay Marriage
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2005, 12:49:46 am »
We argued this one out in detail a while back.

I think the general consensus was that homosexual couples should have access to some form of civil union that would permit them the same rights as a married hetrosexual couple. But that it should not be confused with marriage. Marriage being a religious institution. Instituted by religions that morally appose homosexual behaviour.

As I remember, it was argued (by myself) that because standards of morality are fundamentally relative, one position on the issue (gay's should marry) is not intrinsically more acceptable than the other (gay's should not marry). It was then argued (by Andrew) that, although that may be the case, the absolute standard of law should be anchored in a way that permits the maximum amount of freedom for all without oppressing or encroaching on the freedoms of others and that, under that idea, homosexual union of some kind should be legal. I agreed with his reasoning and conceded the point, although I'd personally prefer to see (and think there is a good case for, but that's a whole other debate) a Christian theocracy over a law based on that idea.

I think the debate ended there.

Quote from: "B"
I cringed when I saw this topic, because I know it is going to lead to arguing, lol.

... one word of advice, don't. Discuss, but play nice. I have a whip, don't make me use it ;-) :whip:

Arguing is great. Check out the old "gay marriage" thread. Me, Rosie and Grak were arguing and joking in parallel. It only gets out of hand when (stupid) people can't keep their emotions out of the debate. For them, the whip ;-)

B

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Gay Marriage
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2005, 05:17:08 am »
Quote from: "kev222"
Arguing is great. Check out the old "gay marriage" thread. Me, Rosie and Grak were arguing and joking in parallel. It only gets out of hand when (stupid) people can't keep their emotions out of the debate. For them, the whip ;-)


Yes, for them, the whip  :wink:.
For all you broken hearted lovers lost, go find another one. 'Cause you know time won't wait and you'll be late, white rabbits on the run...

LimeTwister

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2005, 11:32:12 am »
Quote from: "Laura"
If you think they should have the same rights as us, explain why you think that & if you don't, do the same. I just need some ideas to get me started like on my thesis so I can go from there.


I think it was in the poll section, I don't remember what topic...but if you're gonna start this topic, keep up or you're gonna be 5 pages behind and people will write like books in one page lol.

One thing you could do is not use "us and them." We're all people and using "us and them" sounds odd to me.  Not being rude, but the way to demean your enemy is start separating the person or group from society...which is what "us and them" does.

I am for gay marriage, we live in America...why are people trying to take away someone's rights when it comes to love and marriage?

Can you give us what you think or what you were planning on writing about?

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Gay Marriage
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2005, 11:39:46 am »
Joe's right.

They're not a "them".  Calling homosexuals "them" is quite demeaning.

I know you're not trying to be that way, but this is something you need to work on if you want to be taken seriously in an essay or in an intelligent debate.
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Laura

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2005, 12:06:00 pm »
Quote from: "LimeTwister"


I think it was in the poll section, I don't remember what topic...but if you're gonna start this topic, keep up or you're gonna be 5 pages behind and people will write like books in one page lol.


Don't worry I'll try to keep up, lol.


Quote from: "LimeTwister"
Can you give us what you think or what you were planning on writing about?


I'm planning to write that I am for gay marriage. Here's my thesis so far... we have to have 3 points & I can only think of 2 as of right now. "Gay Marriage should be legal because gay couples should have the same rights and freedoms as anybody else, we live in America so nobody should be told who they can and cannot love"... and I'm stuck on the 3rd point.

But you guys are right, I'll try to make sure I don't use "us or them" or anything like that. I didn't even realize I was doing it  :? so thanks for pointing that out.

Laura

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« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2005, 07:00:29 pm »
Okay so I thought about it & I got a little more help so I think I'm gonna do ok on this paper. I have 1 page done so far, so I just need to keep working on it. Thanks tho, you guys have helped a lot. Especially with getting me started on it. I appreciate it.

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« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2005, 09:58:35 pm »
I LOVE gay people!

I'm all for  human love
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Will

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2005, 10:35:47 pm »
Your thesis is very weak.

Quote from: "Laura"
Gay Marriage should be legal because gay couples should have the same rights and freedoms as anybody else


"Gay marriage" isn't legal or illegal because in the majority of the US, there is no such thing. Marriage, as defined in many statutes, is a legal partnership between two people of the opposite gender. There is nothing about "two people" or "a couple." Furthermore, gay people have the same legal rights and freedoms as everyone else under the law. They are free to marry people of the opposite gender and have a marriage like everyone else in the world, with the same benefits and responsibilities. The problem is, they don't want this. Your thesis is therefore meaningless from the beginning.

What you should be arguing is that perhaps the legal definition of marriage should be expanded to include unions between members of the same sex because you think these couples should enjoy the same legal status as traditional couples.

The other alternative is to create a parallel institution for them, granting them all the same legal duties and rights of marriage.

Talking about whether or not gay marriage should be legal, however, is absurd.
 
Quote from: "Laura"
we live in America so nobody should be told who they can and cannot love


That argument has two problems with it. The first is that the law (which you are arguing about) doesn't prevent gays from loving each other in any part of the US (esp. after Lawrence v. Texas). The only bans on intimate relationships in the US apply to incestual relationships, relationships involving people not of age, and some relationships where there is an "imbalance of power." Remember, you're asking for legal recognition of gay relationships, not asking for them to be allowed. They are allowed already.

Secondly, it's cheap, patriotic, American propaganda bullshit. This country has very little regard for personal freedom. The "land of the free" is no such thing. Our constitutional rights have been twisted around by the courts so many times, they're meaningless now. And those are only the enumerated ones. Many other personal freedoms have been eliminated. Saying that we should have freedom because we're in America is not much of an argument.
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Laura

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« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2005, 01:19:44 pm »
Damn, I suck at this argument thing. I guess my English 98 teacher didn't do a very good job teaching us this stuff even tho I got a B in the class & all this teacher does is talk the whole time.. blah I guess I have to start over. Thanks for pointing that out tho, it's just kind of hard to do an argument paper when I don't know much about any of the topics my teacher says we can do  :? I think I'm actually gonna change the topic to the Death Penalty which I'm a little more familiar with & think I'll have better arguments, cuz I think gay marriage is just too hard to write about. Dunno if you guys would agree but yeah.

Laura

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« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2005, 01:35:25 pm »
oops ignore this post..

jlmusicchick

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« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2005, 03:35:41 pm »
what you need to do first before you even think about a thesis is research. whether you're doing gay marriage or the death penalty, you need to do some basic research before deciding what you want to argue about. Then you come up with a rough thesis. Then you need to narrow down specific claims you're going to make to support your opinion. these claims will be the three points in your essay (which really is quite reasonable, most profs will ask for four or five). don't try to cover every single thing about the death penalty or whatever your topic is in one paper - there's too much to fit in to one paper. pick specific problems that you wish to debate, and fill in basic terms and info as needed.

make sure that your claims and thesis are short and straight to the point. they should either be one clause or two sentances - a double clause sentance like the one you wrote tends to make your paper sound weak and can become confusing to the reader. direct claims with the proper vocab are the most effective.

make sure that for each of your arguments you write about the opposition. you also need citations for each to make your argument stronger. (a helpful hint: write your opinion in active voice and the opposition in passive - this makes tends to make your argument sound stronger than the opposition.)

Laura

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« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2005, 04:46:13 pm »
Dang, you guys have taught me more than my English 101 teacher has, lol seriously he just talks about current events & tries to tie it in with what we have to do which doesn't help much. But thanks Jessica, I'll definitely keep in mind what you said. I think I have a much better thesis for this topic. I don't think my teacher grades really hard for essays tho (I got a B on the last one) but yeah I'll still be careful on everything.