Poll

If Vanessa's next album could only be one of the following, which would you prefer it be?

her best quality-wise, but only so-so sales
28 (90.3%)
her best sales-wise, but worst quality-wise
3 (9.7%)

Total Members Voted: 30

Voting closed: January 26, 2006, 06:22:44 pm

Author Topic: Vanessa's next album -what do you want?  (Read 9121 times)

  • Guest
Vanessa's next album -what do you want?
« on: January 26, 2006, 06:22:44 pm »
One could put up a good arguement for either of these options, but I emphatically vote for quality.

PianoGirl4444

  • Fine as dandelions
  • *****
  • Posts: 1691
    • View Profile
    • http://www.shannonthomas.net
    • Email
Vanessa's next album -what do you want?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2006, 06:34:55 pm »
Umm..

I want the best quality AND respect AND sales!  WHO'S WITH ME!?!

 :D
Cross paths with what you used to have. You've gotta learn that you've gotta earn
The fantasy
:: shannonthomas.net ::

PianoGirl4444

  • Fine as dandelions
  • *****
  • Posts: 1691
    • View Profile
    • http://www.shannonthomas.net
    • Email
Vanessa's next album -what do you want?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2006, 06:35:40 pm »
As the great ME would say, "Why does it have to be one or the other?"

Sorry 'bout the double post...I just couldn't resist.
Cross paths with what you used to have. You've gotta learn that you've gotta earn
The fantasy
:: shannonthomas.net ::

  • Guest
Vanessa's next album -what do you want?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2006, 06:37:31 pm »
Quote from: "PianoGirl4444"
Umm..

I want the best quality AND respect AND sales!  WHO'S WITH ME!?!

 :D


 :D   Well duh!!  Of course that's what we all want, but if that was an option it would be a rather dull poll, now wouldn't it?

  • Guest
Vanessa's next album -what do you want?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2006, 06:44:04 pm »
Quote from: "PianoGirl4444"
As the great ME would say, "Why does it have to be one or the other?"



I think people will have interesting reasons for choosing one option or the other.

You are not cooperating! :evil:
 :lol:  :lol:

Manda

  • Speeding into the horizon
  • *****
  • Posts: 4618
    • View Profile
Vanessa's next album -what do you want?
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2006, 11:36:36 pm »
quality over quantity!

You know that Dirrty feeling when you wake up with no pants on face down on the floor of the city bus and you got like a condom in your ear? Thats the feeling we are trying to create! - Sarah Michelle Gellar

B

  • Captain Awesome
  • Moderators
  • Just looking for some affection
  • *****
  • Posts: 5060
  • Transcending the Possimpible
    • View Profile
    • Nh.com Twitter Page!
Vanessa's next album -what do you want?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2006, 12:30:49 am »
Quality over material success.

In today's music industry, success is dictated by doing what is popular and basically being a record label puppet. After everything that happened with Harmonium and how the label jacked her around, I don't think V will be a record label puppet again any time soon.

Vanessa's music isn't what you'd consider what is popular, but it's what she's good at and what we all want to hear. I think as long as she wants to keep making that kind of music then that's definitely what I want. If she never goes Gold or Plat with it, oh well. There are hundreds of albums and artists out there that never completely make it big with music that's subjectively much better than some of the most popular music today and in generations past.

Plus I'd be kind of scared to see Vanessa Carlton feat. The Ying Yang Twins, Three 6 Mafia, and Lil' Jon. ... not to say I wouldn't like it ('cause I like the crunk music, too), but it would be scary!  :razz: .... I can see Crunchy Blaq dancing on top of the piano now  8O.
For all you broken hearted lovers lost, go find another one. 'Cause you know time won't wait and you'll be late, white rabbits on the run...

NESSAussie

  • Fine as dandelions
  • *****
  • Posts: 1935
    • MSN Messenger - nessaussie@hotmail.com
    • View Profile
    • http://www.mybiopro.com/AU/?ID=harmonium
Vanessa's next album -what do you want?
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2006, 07:30:35 am »
Quote from: "B"
If she never goes Gold or Plat with it, oh well.

Those of us Down Under were fortunate enough to witness ATM reach the #1
spot on the ARIA Charts, where it stayed for a fortnight; spending 8 weeks in
the top ten and finishing the year as the 6th highest selling single (Platx2) :D

Peace

Aaron

  • Guest
Vanessa's next album -what do you want?
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2006, 09:09:02 am »
Quote from: "B"
Quality over material success.

In today's music industry, success is dictated by doing what is popular and basically being a record label puppet. After everything that happened with Harmonium and how the label jacked her around, I don't think V will be a record label puppet again any time soon.

Vanessa's music isn't what you'd consider what is popular, but it's what she's good at and what we all want to hear. I think as long as she wants to keep making that kind of music then that's definitely what I want. If she never goes Gold or Plat with it, oh well. There are hundreds of albums and artists out there that never completely make it big with music that's subjectively much better than some of the most popular music today and in generations past.


Pure gospel!!!! :D

That's the type of answer I was hoping to see.  Although, I think you were thinking of the word objectively not subjectively.  Objective is an unbiased conclusion; Subjective is just anyone's personal opinion.  Sorry to be such a word prick, but people not understanding or mixing up the words objective and subjective is a pet peeve of mine.

If, however, you actually did mean subjectively up there and you were only saying that you personally think there are hundereds of artists much better than the most popular music, then I'm sorry and you can repremand me by saying, "F-off you psuedo-intellectual, arrogant, newbie-ass,  overly wordy, know-it-all, roadkill smelling, magget-faced, puny penised, poo-poo head! :oops:


But it would have been a cooler statement if you used the word objectively, because that's true too! 8)

Vanity

  • Willing and Able to... Run
  • **
  • Posts: 85
    • View Profile
    • Email
Vanessa's next album -what do you want?
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2006, 11:30:45 am »
Quality. V got a little, but strong fan base rigth now, and hopefully it will grow a little with the new album. But I don't think she needs a huge fan base. As long as it's big enough for her to make new albums and go on tour :D
So the quality is more important.

Stay crunchy, even in milk...
- Joss Whedon

  • Guest
Vanessa's next album -what do you want?
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2006, 12:02:58 pm »
8O I'm kinda surprised more people haven't chosen sales with the reasoning that it's essential to Vanessa accomplishing longevity and even a sub-par ablum from her would be great.

I'm in the boat with the people that think her fanbase is large enough already where her sales don't have to be spectacular and she'll be just fine; therefore, we want to hear the absolute best she has to offer...

...But a decent arguement for the other side can be made.  Unfortunately, it's likely that no one will step up and make that arguement now that the poll is so one-sided.

I'm disappointed, I was interested in hearing strong arguements from both sides. :cry:

B

  • Captain Awesome
  • Moderators
  • Just looking for some affection
  • *****
  • Posts: 5060
  • Transcending the Possimpible
    • View Profile
    • Nh.com Twitter Page!
Vanessa's next album -what do you want?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2006, 11:13:22 pm »
Quote from: "abbottANDcostello"

Pure gospel!!!! :D

If, however, you actually did mean subjectively up there and you were only saying that you personally think there are hundereds of artists much better than the most popular music, then I'm sorry and you can repremand me by saying, "F-off you psuedo-intellectual, arrogant, newbie-ass,  overly wordy, know-it-all, roadkill smelling, magget-faced, puny penised, poo-poo head! :oops:


I actually did mean subjectively. I realize that everyone has their own musical tastes, and someone I may think sucks the next poster may love.

Music is very subjective in that way because there is no "real" way to measure who is good and who is not other than by commercial success--which is confounded by too many variables for someone to say objectively (for example) that Vanessa's music is inferior to Avril Lavigne's or Ashlee Simpson's because they have sold a hell of a lot more records and been out in the public eye a lot more.

Some people would argue Avril and Ashlee are better, but many of us would argue that's not the case. There is no "true" answer (Unlike sports where the team that wins the Championship for all intensive purposes is the best team, and because they won the Championship no one can really argue).

That's why I said it is subjective, but I definitely get your point with the verbal pet peeves, I have some of those, too.  :wink:
For all you broken hearted lovers lost, go find another one. 'Cause you know time won't wait and you'll be late, white rabbits on the run...

B

  • Captain Awesome
  • Moderators
  • Just looking for some affection
  • *****
  • Posts: 5060
  • Transcending the Possimpible
    • View Profile
    • Nh.com Twitter Page!
Vanessa's next album -what do you want?
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2006, 11:34:08 pm »
Quote from: "abbottANDcostello"
...But a decent arguement for the other side can be made.  Unfortunately, it's likely that no one will step up and make that arguement now that the poll is so one-sided.

I'm disappointed, I was interested in hearing strong arguements from both sides. :cry:


I can make that argument if you want... LOL.

Short Version: If Vanessa can sell records, she can revitalize her career. The 2 and a half year layoff between Be not Nobody and Harmonium led a lot of fans away. She didn't keep her name in fans minds, so they forgot about her. For many fans not as close-knit in the Vanessa community as many of the people who post here and on the O-Board, during that layoff they went and found a new artist to fawn over. Many of us even found another artist or group we liked, but when Harmonium came out we came back.

We're going on a year and a few months since Harmonium, and a year and a half since her last single. If people didn't remember her then, hardly anyone outside of our circles remembers her now (Unless you say "The A Thousand Miles girl" in which case people say "Oh, I loved that song!" or "Ew, I hated that Time Warner commercial!" lol). By selling records, even if it wasn't the best material, she could extend her career in the spotlight. Otherwise if she continues at the rate she's going, she'll end up doing the indy thing and probably continue playing for herself and for her true fans while being labeled by others as a One Hit Wonder.

My opinion: Vanessa definitely has some songs in her that could have huge pop appeal and have quality (Who's To Say had it, Private Radio could have had it, we all know ATM and Ordinary Day had it), and if she could tap that side she could definitely sell some albums... and even if she had to change her music completely to the gummy pop, I know she could do it if she wanted to.

Considering all that, again it comes back to having a label to back her music. She can't pound the pavement and promote a single and album all by herself. The label has to ship it to radio, she has to do radio touring, etc. A&M tried to do that for "White Houses", but dropping the single in early August then pushing the CD back to November and not having her tour with the new material until the end of October killed all the hype. The fact the album leaked in early October didn't help, either.

Getting out this past summer with Stevie Nicks was good PR since Nicks has been a steady contributor in the industry, but most of her crowds were older people who aren't going to follow a 25-year old singer songwriter. It's not really the demographic her music is targeted for.

Especially considering how Pretty Baby flopped on radio, White Houses didn't do much, and how overall Harmonium sold very poorly, for radio and TV to even give Vanessa a fair shake would be a long shot unless she did change her music dramatically to what is popular now.

Even if she was able to regain fame from having a successful album, who's to say it wouldn't be a one shot deal? And who is to say she would be happy with changing her music if that is the only way a commercially successful album would come about? Just taking what Vanessa said about Harmonium to heart, she said that she was happy with how it was and didn't seem terribly concerned about whether it would sell records because it was her real music.

The way I see it, for Vanessa to make something that would be a no-doubt smash hit which would have the best sales, she'd have to change who she is musically, and I don't think at the end of the day she'd be willing to sell herself or her music out to do that. There are some people in the industry who are willing to do anything and everything to be on top, I don't see V as one of those people.

(so much for arguing pro-sales, LOL)
For all you broken hearted lovers lost, go find another one. 'Cause you know time won't wait and you'll be late, white rabbits on the run...

  • Guest
Vanessa's next album -what do you want?
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2006, 11:30:02 am »
Quote from: "B"


I actually did mean subjectively. I realize that everyone has their own musical tastes, and someone I may think sucks the next poster may love.

Music is very subjective in that way because there is no "real" way to measure who is good and who is not other than by commercial success--which is confounded by too many variables for someone to say objectively (for example) that Vanessa's music is inferior to Avril Lavigne's or Ashlee Simpson's because they have sold a hell of a lot more records and been out in the public eye a lot more.

Some people would argue Avril and Ashlee are better, but many of us would argue that's not the case. There is no "true" answer


I disagree, I think art such as music and film can be objectively critiqued.  While there is no way to make a "Top Ten" list or something, I do think that music artists and films can be ojectively grouped into tiers of quality.

Speaking in general terms, entertainment seems to be the only thing that everyone appears to think they are an expert.  For example, most people in their teens and twenties who aren't film scholars probably like the movie Old School better than Woody Allen's Manhattan.  No problem there, but many of them would probably even go as far as to say it is a better film.   8O

A real expert with a respectable cinematic frame of reference could tell you that, although Old School was humorous and reasonably entertaining, it was merely following the same conventions and using all the same jokes that have been used in comedies ever since Jerry Lewis  8) invented the obnoxious comic.  For an actual expert with a good frame of reference, Old School was merely "another one of those movies," but to an average movie goer who hasn't seen a bunch of movies exactly like Old School already, it was fresh and funny.  The larger one's frame of reference, the better and more respected their opinion should be.

Regarding Manhattan, howver, a film expert could tell you how brilliant the cinematography is and how Allen conveyed the story of regret and over thinking love in a clever and even humorous new voice.  See what I'm getting at?   :?:

I think music and film can be objectively critiqued, even by average people like us (though nowhere near as well as an expert who studies this shit) if we are able to shut down our subjectivity for a second and assess an artist or film based on technical skill, innovation, and, later, by cultural impact, with an unbiased approach.  For example, I kinda like Avril Lavigne and don't care for Sheryl Crow, but if you asked me who was better, I'd say Crow withouth hesitation.  The older I get, the more I realize how rare this trait actually is. :D

  • Guest
Vanessa's next album -what do you want?
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2006, 11:46:45 am »
Quote from: "B"


We're going on a year and a few months since Harmonium, and a year and a half since her last single. If people didn't remember her then, hardly anyone outside of our circles remembers her now (Unless you say "The A Thousand Miles girl" in which case people say "Oh, I loved that song!" or "Ew, I hated that Time Warner commercial!" lol).

 :lol:

I get that same thing.  I made a shirt that says "My Vanessa Carlton Shirt" because she doesn't appear to have any official shirts selling anywhere, and people always ask me if she's the one with the guitar or the piano. :x

Then when I say piano, they always bring up the Time Warner commercial and say how annoying that thing was and how much she sucks even thought they know nothing about her.

Fortunately, I'm very articulate and quite witty when I want to be, so I quickly engage them in a brief arguement about the integrity and quality of Vanessa's music compared to whatever modern act they like and I basically rip them up pretty badly.  I know that's kinda mean and over the top, but what can I say...I'm a prick. :twisted: