Heroes And Thieves - Live Video!

[zurielshimon]

she's got 2 albums.. and they dont  :razz:

Well, that's a slightly stronger argument.  I mean, it doesn't require a deal to make an album.

[ordinaryday6]

i'd say that that's a weaker arguement, because it doesn't take a deal to make an album. anybody can make an album with the time and money, but to get a deal is more difficult and rare.

but i'm so tired of this; vanessa's going to make whatever music she wants to make regardless of if one of the people on this board thinks it's too simple or not, and you can either listen to the music or not. get over yourselves.

[PutYourHandsOnMe101]

i'd say that that's a weaker arguement, because it doesn't take a deal to make an album. anybody can make an album with the time and money, but to get a deal is more difficult and rare.

but i'm so tired of this; vanessa's going to make whatever music she wants to make regardless of if one of the people on this board thinks it's too simple or not, and you can either listen to the music or not. get over yourselves.

Agreed.... also V said in that mtv interview that she is sitting on the best batch of songs she's ever written so I think that counts for something...

The album is going to come out and it WILL be good  

[rosieposy87]

i'd say that that's a weaker arguement, because it doesn't take a deal to make an album. anybody can make an album with the time and money, but to get a deal is more difficult and rare.

but i'm so tired of this; vanessa's going to make whatever music she wants to make regardless of if one of the people on this board thinks it's too simple or not, and you can either listen to the music or not. get over yourselves.

Lmao. The idiocy astounds me. Yes of COURSE it's not going to make a blind bit of difference what we say- that is completely beside the point. The point is that this is a DISCUSSION forum where you DISCUSS Vanessa's music etc. That is exactly what we're doing.

[amberbeads]

there's a difference between critically assessing something and being haughty.

[NoelleNC]

It seemed to me that they were not just critically assessing her, they were acting as though they were superior. It's one thing to say, "Well, I think she could improve on this and maybe throw in some of this", but they act like V is a snob (when they are the ones acting snobbish), and suggest that their own work is better.

Vanessa has a style, and the quality of each song varies in my opinion - with some definite stand outs, and then some that I don't find so good. But I think it's hard to come out with gold each go 'round. Still, I think even her mediocre work is better than most of the shat on the radio today.

"It's great to be in touch with your inner child, but it comes a time to grow up, no offense. " - Vanessa Piana

"I think one of the best ways she could learn is if she stopped being an isolated, headstrong artist and would engage in more co-writing with renowned composers. " - That other guy with the random name...

^^ That goes beyond a humble critique I would say

[me and my piano---tim]

there's a difference between critically assessing something and being haughty.

what a perfect word to describe their "critiques"

adjective, he is both haughty and disdainful
proud, arrogant, vain, conceited, snobbish, superior, self-important, pompous, supercilious, condescending, patronizing; scornful, contemptuous, disdainful; full of oneself, above oneself; informal stuck-up, snooty, hoity-toity, uppity, uppish, big-headed, high and mighty, la-di-da. antonym humble

Vanessa Piana, what on earth makes you think you know better? Remind me NOT to buy your music.. I doubt your kinda attitude will get you far musically.  Who are you to define what music should sound like? Vanessa's music sounds more mature with each new release, I have no idea where you're coming from.  Figure out a way to rephrase and censor yourself, people here don't care for your banter.

[jsbachsonata]

hey thanks for the comments. I respect every one of your comments and I know music is an extremely subjective kind of art... It's always great for people to like OR dislike music. Even today, the greatest classical composer Mozart is not universally liked. Just please refrain from ad hominem attacks on members. This is a discussion on Vanessa and I think we would benefit just keeping our discussion on her.

I do not have a record deal nor am I a singer-songwriter but as a classical and jazz composer, I am entitled to music critique. Anyways critique does not need to be backed by credentials. Who cares if I am a classical/jazz composer! Music is music and anyone who has an ear is entitled to voice his opinion. I respect all of you for voicing your opinions. That is the beauty of music.

As for saying that I am talking about vanessa in a disparaging tone by putting myself on a higher level than hers... well, all i have to say is that I do not believe that I am making myself superior when I criticize a musician. I am a musician myself and criticism is what I survive on. People always tell me how I could improve and in the same way, I am just putting out my take of areas where Vanessa could improve.

Music is like an English paper. You can always find places for improvement. You can take an English paper and tell the writer that nothing is wrong but you also know they could benefit from some advice. It is just the same thing. Being a music analyzer is totally different from being the performer. I can analyze the perfomance of an orchestra or literature, but I cannot be the orchestra or publish a book that will be deemed literature in the future. The fact that I cannot "be" the works I analyze does not make my comments trash.

I also have to say that your treatment of Vanessa Piana is quite unfair. I find it quite sad that someone who obviously is a fan of vanessa's cannot express their dislike in certain parts of her music. By saying that Vanessa Piana does not deserve to be supported as an artist on this board and that everyone should *boycott* her music in the future is something that does not pertain to vanessa's music. Again these ad hominem attacks are quite harmful.

[PutYourHandsOnMe101]

hey thanks for the comments. I respect every one of your comments and I know music is an extremely subjective kind of art... It's always great for people to like OR dislike music. Even today, the greatest classical composer Mozart is not universally liked. Just please refrain from ad hominem attacks on members. This is a discussion on Vanessa and I think we would benefit just keeping our discussion on her.

I do not have a record deal nor am I a singer-songwriter but as a classical and jazz composer, I am entitled to music critique. Anyways critique does not need to be backed by credentials. Who cares if I am a classical/jazz composer! Music is music and anyone who has an ear is entitled to voice his opinion. I respect all of you for voicing your opinions. That is the beauty of music.

As for saying that I am talking about vanessa in a disparaging tone by putting myself on a higher level than hers... well, all i have to say is that I do not believe that I am making myself superior when I criticize a musician. I am a musician myself and criticism is what I survive on. People always tell me how I could improve and in the same way, I am just putting out my take of areas where Vanessa could improve.

Music is like an English paper. You can always find places for improvement. You can take an English paper and tell the writer that nothing is wrong but you also know they could benefit from some advice. It is just the same thing. Being a music analyzer is totally different from being the performer. I can analyze the perfomance of an orchestra or literature, but I cannot be the orchestra or publish a book that will be deemed literature in the future. The fact that I cannot "be" the works I analyze does not make my comments trash.

I also have to say that your treatment of Vanessa Piana is quite unfair. I find it quite sad that someone who obviously is a fan of vanessa's cannot express their dislike in certain parts of her music. By saying that Vanessa Piana does not deserve to be supported as an artist on this board and that everyone should *boycott* her music in the future is something that does not pertain to vanessa's music. Again these ad hominem attacks are quite harmful.

Only one person said they wouldn't buy Vanessa Piana's music... I never said I wouldn't. Also I have NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER with people critically assessing Vanessa's work but some of the comments that were made were extremely harsh....  things like "she sounds like a 7-year-old" and "she's probing through the art of songwriting blindly" makes the rest of us at the board wonder why Vanessa Piana is here... if he/she is a fan then good they belong on these boards... it's just that comments that cut down V, her entire career, and everything she's about musically don't go over well with the rest of us  :roll:

[zurielshimon]

she's got 2 albums.. and they dont  :razz:

Well, that's a slightly stronger argument.  I mean, it doesn't require a deal to make an album.

i'd say that that's a weaker arguement, because it doesn't take a deal to make an album. anybody can make an album with the time and money, but to get a deal is more difficult and rare.

but i'm so tired of this; vanessa's going to make whatever music she wants to make regardless of if one of the people on this board thinks it's too simple or not, and you can either listen to the music or not. get over yourselves.

What I mean is that she has the albums, so they can stand as proof.  Not just because they're albums but because of what's on them.  If someone thinks they're better than Vanessa Carlton, they just need to make an album (and not necessarily get a record deal) and then we can all be the judge.  Just having a deal doesn't mean anything, because there's a lot of crap out there with a major label on it.

[ordinaryday6]

she's got 2 albums.. and they dont  :razz:

Well, that's a slightly stronger argument.  I mean, it doesn't require a deal to make an album.

i'd say that that's a weaker arguement, because it doesn't take a deal to make an album. anybody can make an album with the time and money, but to get a deal is more difficult and rare.

but i'm so tired of this; vanessa's going to make whatever music she wants to make regardless of if one of the people on this board thinks it's too simple or not, and you can either listen to the music or not. get over yourselves.

What I mean is that she has the albums, so they can stand as proof.  Not just because they're albums but because of what's on them.  If someone thinks they're better than Vanessa Carlton, they just need to make an album (and not necessarily get a record deal) and then we can all be the judge.  Just having a deal doesn't mean anything, because there's a lot of crap out there with a major label on it.

gotcha.

[Manny]

she's got 2 albums.. and they dont  :razz:

Well, that's a slightly stronger argument.  I mean, it doesn't require a deal to make an album.

i'd say that that's a weaker arguement, because it doesn't take a deal to make an album. anybody can make an album with the time and money, but to get a deal is more difficult and rare.

but i'm so tired of this; vanessa's going to make whatever music she wants to make regardless of if one of the people on this board thinks it's too simple or not, and you can either listen to the music or not. get over yourselves.

What I mean is that she has the albums, so they can stand as proof.  Not just because they're albums but because of what's on them.  If someone thinks they're better than Vanessa Carlton, they just need to make an album (and not necessarily get a record deal) and then we can all be the judge.  Just having a deal doesn't mean anything, because there's a lot of crap out there with a major label on it.

^Exactly^ I wouldn't need a deal to record demo tracks.. unless I'd want to be super famous..

[me and my piano---tim]

hey thanks for the comments. I respect every one of your comments and I know music is an extremely subjective kind of art... It's always great for people to like OR dislike music. Even today, the greatest classical composer Mozart is not universally liked. Just please refrain from ad hominem attacks on members. This is a discussion on Vanessa and I think we would benefit just keeping our discussion on her.

I do not have a record deal nor am I a singer-songwriter but as a classical and jazz composer, I am entitled to music critique. Anyways critique does not need to be backed by credentials. Who cares if I am a classical/jazz composer! Music is music and anyone who has an ear is entitled to voice his opinion. I respect all of you for voicing your opinions. That is the beauty of music.

As for saying that I am talking about vanessa in a disparaging tone by putting myself on a higher level than hers... well, all i have to say is that I do not believe that I am making myself superior when I criticize a musician. I am a musician myself and criticism is what I survive on. People always tell me how I could improve and in the same way, I am just putting out my take of areas where Vanessa could improve.

Music is like an English paper. You can always find places for improvement. You can take an English paper and tell the writer that nothing is wrong but you also know they could benefit from some advice. It is just the same thing. Being a music analyzer is totally different from being the performer. I can analyze the perfomance of an orchestra or literature, but I cannot be the orchestra or publish a book that will be deemed literature in the future. The fact that I cannot "be" the works I analyze does not make my comments trash.

I also have to say that your treatment of Vanessa Piana is quite unfair. I find it quite sad that someone who obviously is a fan of vanessa's cannot express their dislike in certain parts of her music. By saying that Vanessa Piana does not deserve to be supported as an artist on this board and that everyone should *boycott* her music in the future is something that does not pertain to vanessa's music. Again these ad hominem attacks are quite harmful.

See, I know everyone is just trying to express themselves but sometimes people,  maybe by accident, make it sound like what they think is fact. That's why it's upsetting. For instance, you've done it in this message...

Even today, the greatest classical composer Mozart is not universally liked.

Why is he the greatest composer? In my oh so humble opinion, Beethoven is the greatest composer... People should stop being so matter of fact when they express themselves, especially when they're critiquing V on her fansite.

well, all i have to say is that I do not believe that I am making myself superior when I criticize a musician. I am a musician myself and criticism is what I survive on.

Understood. But you should expect that when come across the way you do that her biggest fans are gonna jump down your throat. In a way, when you insult her music... and that's what's going on here... you insult her fans (or maybe just me).  She's been my favorite artist for a good four or five years now and her music's a huge part of who I am, especially my own music.  The 7yo comment was particularly bashing.

By saying that Vanessa Piana does not deserve to be supported as an artist on this board and that everyone should *boycott* her music in the future is something that does not pertain to vanessa's music.

Ironically, Vanessa Piana brought her own music into question when she used it to justify/support her outlandish claims... basically juxtaposing her work with vanessa's.  So I don't feel that a comment about her music was out of line.  And please, when I or anybody else makes a statement, we don't represent the entire forum so don't extrapolate my comment about *boycotting* vanessa piana's music.  All I was saying was that I personally doubt that I would like his/her music based on his/her attitude towards the art in general.  Those comments were frustrating.. hence: "remind me not to buy." because whie this discussion is a little rediculous, it's not gonna matter in a minute's time.

I don't if I'm any sense. very exhausted. but yea.

[ordinaryday6]

^ i agree with tim

[nosticker]

I'm working on a record deal, FYI. I'm thinking about sending my demo to David Foster, who I love to death. He's a very talented producer who's one of the music industry's biggest giants. I KNOW for sure he's gonna be impressed with me b/c his style is similar, except the stuff he composes is more complex and spontaneous, which is why he's been so successful all these years. I wouldn't describe him as 'famous', but he is well-known and his resume of the great artists he's worked with over the years is pretty impressive [AND long]. But if he rejects it, then I'll understand. Just meeting the man would be good enough for me. If you want advice about how to survive in the mainstream world of pop music, then he's the man that could tell you nothing wrong, b/c he's been in the music biz for 35-40 years. He definitely makes a lot sense to me. Maybe V should consult with him and recieve constructive critisism from him, trust me, we'll all see improvement w/ her career [like jsbachsonata was saying]. But I guess she has too much pride for that.


Elicia

I'm sort of baffled as to why you feel Vanessa has too much pride; it's as if you're being prejudicial.  How do you know she hasn't spoken to David Foster, or any of hundreds of other knowledgeable people in the business, and that she has not done so out of pride?
Why is it only David Foster that can turn things around for her and not, say, John Shanks?

If you have a demo good enough to send to David Foster....hey, turn us all on to it!  


Dan/NS