What is your Religion/Affiliation/Religious Affiliation/Etc.

[PIBby]

If god is fair and just as the bible says he is...why can some people be born, beaten, raped, beaten again, and killed. I don't think that is fair. I don't think there is justice in that.

 I've wondered that myself. I've even thought about Him putting Christ through all that He did, and God sitting back and saying, "This is all He has do, just be tortured and crucified, then My plan will have worked," and I've just wondered Okay . . . Because You're the One Who's going to suffer, right Yaweh? People've always said, "God loved us so much He sacrificed His own Son," but if He loved us even more He would've sacrificed Himself, it seems, so His Son wouldn't have had to go through with it.

 Yes, I do believe in the Holy Trinity, but this is just something I've been *pondering* for a while, now.

 Also, to get back on track, God's supposed to have a plan for everything. So the deaths of people are just plans. The assumed excuse for God letting Mitchell die was that Mitchell touched so many lives throughout his life and his sickness. And I'm still confused, because God can just say, "Okay, Louisville, KY, you're not pure. I'm going to make this 14-year-old boy suffer for a year and a half, then have him die so you become better." It's so much bullshit. I don't know what God thought He was going to do, but it's the worst plan I've heard of in a while, now.

[kev222]

relgion is a joke.

*This is just my opinion.*

No offense to the Bible-thumping Christians or anything... I've got too many brain cells to fall for that one... What a load of shit

It would have been better to let your pejorative assertions stand alone as what they are and spare us the empty "no offense" qualification.

but I am utterly confused by the origin of God. He's just there. And we're supposed to just believe that. No thanks. I've got too many brain cells to fall for that one.

Eliminating God simply moves your origins problem down a step. Do you believe that the universe was "just there"? Or do you have too many braincells for that idea also?

The Bible is another thing I really don't get. Prejudice comes from the Bible.  And if "God is love" why does He detest gays? What a load of shit  :roll:

Perhaps you don't get it because you haven't read it or at least haven't made an effort to understand it. If you had, then I'd be one less Christian having to reiterate "hates the sin, loves the sinner".

I must agree, and most people say we who havn't read the whole bible through and havn't had a heavy dose of church know anything...Well I was raised going to baptist church, and I read the bible through, and I've memorized parts, and I don't think any of it is anything short of BS.

I mean, I want a reason to live, and a meaning of life...but I don't see it.

I always think like this...If god is fair and just as the bible says he is...why do some people live peacfully, have no financial problems, or anything, and yet a person can be born, beaten, raped, beaten again, and killed. I don't think that is fair. I don't think there is justice in that.

I am going to bed, I might go into more later, but I can't find any god being fair and just that way...

This is a reasonable question and one that deserves an answer. Such an answer has been provided many times and in many places. Some of these answers are well founded biblically and unfortunately others aren't. One of the best that I have seen is available here. It's quite long, but it needs to be.

Much of the world as it is now (post-fall) does not reflect the character of God as did the pre-fall creation. The unfairness of suffering is not a reflection of the character or will of God, but rather the result of an increasing seperation of the world from God. He will not violate our free will. If we don't want God, we don't get Him.

-Kev

[LimeTwister]

People create evil.  I don't believe there is a Hell, I believe that was something to stop humans from being bad.  Evidentally, it didn't work...I mean I do believe humans are punished for their "sins," but I don't believe they go to "Hell."

[Grakthis]

People create evil.  I don't believe there is a Hell, I believe that was something to stop humans from being bad.  Evidentally, it didn't work...I mean I do believe humans are punished for their "sins," but I don't believe they go to "Hell."

Most Catholic dogma defines hell as "eternal seperation from God" and Christian scholars often declare hell as a self-imposed isolation from God.

In other words, you go to hell because you CHOOSE to reject God in life.  It's not a case of God punishing you for your sins.  God is just saying "I am here, and if you embrace me you spend eternity with me and if you don't you spend eternity away from me.  But it's your choice."

That's largely an interpretation, however, as many Christian religions still support the fire and brimstone view of hell.

[Grakthis]

i don't know what I qualify as, an Athiest? I don't know. But relgion is a joke.

*This is just my opinion.*

No offense to the Bible-thumping Christians or anything, but I am utterly confused by the origin of God. He's just there. And we're supposed to just believe that. No thanks. I've got too many brain cells to fall for that one.

The Bible is another thing I really don't get. Prejudice comes from the Bible.  And if "God is love" why does He detest gays? What a load of shit  :roll:

Keith,
  To piggy back on what Kev said.... SOMETHING has to have been the unmoved mover.  Something had to start it all.

Was it energy?  Was it matter?  Was it gods or A God?  You MUST believe that SOMETHING existed first to start all other existance.

Why is the idea of a sentient God any more unrealistic than the idea that "energy and matter" have always existed?

Also, prejudice does not come from the Bible.  For example.

Matthew 5:21
"But I say to you that anyone who is angry with a brother will be subjected to judgment. And whoever insults a brother will be brought before the council, and whoever says ‘Fool’ will be sent to fiery hell"

Matthew 5:43
"But I say to you, love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be like your Father in heaven, since he causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Even the tax collectors do the same, don’t they? And if you only greet your brothers, what more do you do? Even the Gentiles do the same, don’t they? So then, be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

The Bible says let GOD judge the morality of a man.  Christians condemn the action, not the person.

Which, BTW, is the official stance of the Catholic church on gays.  It's ok to be homosexual.  It is not ok to act on that.  Just as I could be born with the urge to be aggressive and a desire to kill and maime, I am not commiting a sin in the eyes of the church until I act on that urge.

[Logikal X]

i don't know what I qualify as, an Athiest? I don't know. But relgion is a joke.

*This is just my opinion.*

No offense to the Bible-thumping Christians or anything, but I am utterly confused by the origin of God. He's just there. And we're supposed to just believe that. No thanks. I've got too many brain cells to fall for that one.

The Bible is another thing I really don't get. Prejudice comes from the Bible.  And if "God is love" why does He detest gays? What a load of shit  :roll:

Let us claim our brains are imperial yet make a simple grammatical mistake in the same paragraph.  God said let there be morons, and morons there was, and it was good.

[xxjenniferxx]

 What a load of shit  :roll:

 8O  8O  8O  8O  8O  8O  8O  8O  8O NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[tylor2000]

i don't know what I qualify as, an Athiest? I don't know. But relgion is a joke.

*This is just my opinion.*

No offense to the Bible-thumping Christians or anything, but I am utterly confused by the origin of God. He's just there. And we're supposed to just believe that. No thanks. I've got too many brain cells to fall for that one.

The Bible is another thing I really don't get. Prejudice comes from the Bible.  And if "God is love" why does He detest gays? What a load of shit  :roll:

Keith,
  To piggy back on what Kev said.... SOMETHING has to have been the unmoved mover.  Something had to start it all.

Was it energy?  Was it matter?  Was it gods or A God?  You MUST believe that SOMETHING existed first to start all other existance.

Why is the idea of a sentient God any more unrealistic than the idea that "energy and matter" have always existed?

Or you could take the stance we don't know what started everything, and not believe anything.  And then laugh at people who jump to conclusions.  The only reason you need to believe in something is for your own mental health  --and mine is fading.  :wink:

tylor

[tylor2000]

Much of the world as it is now (post-fall) does not reflect the character of God as did the pre-fall creation. The unfairness of suffering is not a reflection of the character or will of God, but rather the result of an increasing seperation of the world from God. He will not violate our free will. If we don't want God, we don't get Him.


-Kev

Wow, great answer.  I'm going to use that one.  Do you know why he won't violate our free will?

[Grakthis]

Or you could take the stance we don't know what started everything, and not believe anything.  And then laugh at people who jump to conclusions.  The only reason you need to believe in something is for your own mental health  --and mine is fading.  :wink:

tylor

But you have to believe SOMETHING.  Even if your belief is "I don't know what the unmoved mover was" that is still a belief.

Either way, you must accept that SOMETHING started it all.  If you accept that SOMETHING started it and you believe there is no more empyrical evidence for one source than another then it is no more or less intelligent to BELIEVE (notice the word is BELIEVE not KNOW) in one than another.

Therefore, if you believe that we exist and you believe there is no empyrical evidence AGAINST a God then you CANNOT, rationally, believe it is foolish for a person to believe IN a God unless you are AGAINST the practice of having a "BELIEF", which case you will always only believe things that have strict empyrical evidence in support of them.  Which is depressing as all hell.

[Logikal X]

i don't know what I qualify as, an Athiest? I don't know. But relgion is a joke.

*This is just my opinion.*

No offense to the Bible-thumping Christians or anything, but I am utterly confused by the origin of God. He's just there. And we're supposed to just believe that. No thanks. I've got too many brain cells to fall for that one.

The Bible is another thing I really don't get. Prejudice comes from the Bible.  And if "God is love" why does He detest gays? What a load of shit  :roll:

Keith,
  To piggy back on what Kev said.... SOMETHING has to have been the unmoved mover.  Something had to start it all.

Was it energy?  Was it matter?  Was it gods or A God?  You MUST believe that SOMETHING existed first to start all other existance.

Why is the idea of a sentient God any more unrealistic than the idea that "energy and matter" have always existed?

Also, prejudice does not come from the Bible.  For example.

Matthew 5:21
"But I say to you that anyone who is angry with a brother will be subjected to judgment. And whoever insults a brother will be brought before the council, and whoever says ‘Fool’ will be sent to fiery hell"

Matthew 5:43
"But I say to you, love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be like your Father in heaven, since he causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Even the tax collectors do the same, don’t they? And if you only greet your brothers, what more do you do? Even the Gentiles do the same, don’t they? So then, be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

The Bible says let GOD judge the morality of a man.  Christians condemn the action, not the person.

Which, BTW, is the official stance of the Catholic church on gays.  It's ok to be homosexual.  It is not ok to act on that.  Just as I could be born with the urge to be aggressive and a desire to kill and maime, I am not commiting a sin in the eyes of the church until I act on that urge.

You dont have to believe anything.  How could there be nothing before and everything now?  Isnt it logically impossible to start with nothing? How can nothing exist?  Nothing cant exist, its a redundancy.  Nothing had to start at some point, everything could be infinite, much like you could never count to the last number, you could never find a slated point for the beginning of time.  I believe the logic of the universe is far beyond the comprehension of humankind, and there is no true starting point in creation.

[xxjenniferxx]

In other words, you go to hell because you CHOOSE to reject God in life.  It's not a case of God punishing you for your sins.  God is just saying "I am here, and if you embrace me you spend eternity with me and if you don't you spend eternity away from me.  But it's your choice."

um..thats not entirely true..a person can say they accept god and still go to hell..its not about just accepting..you have to proove to god that hes in your heart faithfully by showing it from your soul completely....
And then again nobody knows if thier is a hell or not, really...

[Grakthis]

You dont have to believe anything.  How could there be nothing before and everything now?  Isnt it logically impossible to start with nothing? How can nothing exist?  Nothing cant exist, its a redundancy.  Nothing had to start at some point, everything could be infinite, much like you could never count to the last number, you could never find a slated point for the beginning of time.  I believe the logic of the universe is far beyond the comprehension of humankind, and there is no true starting point in creation.

Yes you do.  Because even if you choose not to believe in anything, then not believing in anything is your belief.  Therefore, you MUST believe in something.

And besides, if you say there is no starting point for creation then you are defineing matter and energy as your starting point.

You contradict yourself in your own post like 4 times.

Your answer to the question of "where did the universe come from" is "the universe has just always been!"

Then fine, matter and energy are your god.  They are your unmoved-mover.  Your creation.  Period.  

You can change the language all you want to, but you're still saying the same thing.

[Logikal X]

you said

"SOMETHING must have existed first"


I dont believe SOMETHING existed first, i think it was all always here


therefore i dont believe anything as in;  I don't believe that there was a starting point


and you cant say if i believe there was no starting point, then i believe what is now was the starting point.  I dont believe in a starting point at all.  What there is now, never "started"  there is no "start"



AND i believe in NOTHING, nothing is NOT something.


I  believe that statement is technically possible and impossible so you are 50% right on the contradiction,

In such even that  believing in nothing is something for your point of view, my belief is that existance is beyond human comprehension therefore cannot be argued or proven.

[Grakthis]

you said

"SOMETHING must have existed first"


I dont believe SOMETHING existed first, i think it was all always here


therefore i dont believe anything as in;  I don't believe that there was a starting point


and you cant say if i believe there was no starting point, then i believe what is now was the starting point.  I dont believe in a starting point at all.  What there is now, never "started"  there is no "start"



AND i believe in NOTHING, nothing is NOT something.


I  believe that statement is technically possible and impossible so you are 50% right on the contradiction,

In such even that  believing in nothing is something for your point of view, my belief is that existance is beyond human comprehension therefore cannot be argued or proven.

So to my point, if SOMETHING was always there then SOMETHING existed first.  Duh.

So you don't believe in a linear universe?  If time stretches back forever, then how did stars and planets get where they are now?  Explain dark matter and anti-gravity to me.  If time went back forever then all matter would be infinitly far apart and all energy would be infinitly dispersed.  Unless you believe space isn't infinit but time is?  Even then, you can't explain the miliseconds before the big bang.

*waits patiently for Pete to Google up these recent scientific discoveries*