IIT The Pope Was Right

[rosieposy87]

Oh lord... are you really comparing a few priests who molested choir boys to a religion condoning mass murder?  Seriously?  None of those priests tried to argue that what they did was RIGHT afterwards.  They all knew it was wrong.  They were bad people.  The muslims argue and believe that the violent acts they commit are RIGHT AND JUST!

Oh Grakky, I'm ashamed of you. You sound like a classic uneducated American idiot who's been watching far too much Fox News. If you can name 1 internationally credible muslim leader who has said terrorist acts are 'right and just' then i will be VERY surprised.

Of course i'm not a fan of these attacks- i missed the bus bomb by 2 minutes- but i do not for a second believe that the majority of Muslims believe these acts are 'right and just'.

Moreover, the actions of angry and outraged male muslims in the middle east are more the actions of people who are poor, unemployed and oppressed, rather than actions that stem from a belief in the Islamic faith.

I'm actually really surprised at your naievity.

[Will]

If you can name 1 internationally credible muslim leader who has said terrorist acts are 'right and just' then i will be VERY surprised.

A leader who advocates violence will not be credible in the international community. Your argument is essentially a tautology.

[ManuelD]

It wasn't all a thousand years ago, did you see The Magdalene Sisters?, that movie is based on real life and that was still happening in the 1990's, or what about the pedofile priests that abuse little children and that the church protects, it still happens today, or what about the catholic church being the biggest and most powerful promotor of homophobia in the world, that also still happens. Unfortunally the pope is one of the most influential people in the world, and what he says will always be powerful no matter how stupid or wrong it is, so he should be careful with his words.

Oh lord... are you really comparing a few priests who molested choir boys to a religion condoning mass murder?  Seriously?  None of those priests tried to argue that what they did was RIGHT afterwards.  They all knew it was wrong.  They were bad people.  The muslims argue and believe that the violent acts they commit are RIGHT AND JUST!

And the Catholic church does not promote homophobia.  The Catholic church says it's perfectly ok to be gay.  They accept and embrace gay people.  It's sex outside of marriage that the catholic church condems.  Which is the same standard they apply to every Catholic.

So if a gay person does not engage in sex, they are A-OK with the Catholic church.

Edit: And let's pretend that ANYTHING you are saying is relevant or true.... HOW DOES ANY OF THIS JUSTIFY THE FACT THAT THE MUSLIM RELIGION IS DOMONSTRABLY MADE UP OF MURDERERS, HATE MONGERS AND HYPOCRITES?!?

Does saying "lolz, the Catholics are just as bad" make what the Muslims do OK?!?

It's not a few priests, there are hundreds of books and a few movies about it.

And the catholic church does promote homophobia in a big way; a big part of seeking for happiness in life for most people is finding someone to love and share your life with(in every aspect, even sexual) and if because of your sexual orientation that person is someone of your own sex, and  because of that someone tell you that that is wrong, thats homophobia. Allowing straight people to do things that you condemn gay people for doing THAT'S HOMOPHOBIA.
Condemning gay unios, THAT'S HOMOPHOBIA. And the catholic church does all of those things all the time.

Because you think that homophobia is ok doesn't mean that it is.

I went to a catholic school for 11 years, and I never heard "Being gay is ok" from them, SO DON'T ARGUE WHAT I KNOW, AND THE WORLD KNOWS, WITH YOUR BULLSHIT.

[ManuelD]

I'm done with this topic, people like Grakthis can't be fixed, too bad there are so many of them.

[TSE]

I went to a catholic school for 11 years, and I never heard "Being gay is ok" from them, SO DON'T ARGUE WHAT I KNOW, AND THE WORLD KNOWS, WITH YOUR BULLSHIT.

13 years and I did.

[Grakthis]

Oh Grakky, I'm ashamed of you. You sound like a classic uneducated American idiot who's been watching far too much Fox News. If you can name 1 internationally credible muslim leader who has said terrorist acts are 'right and just' then i will be VERY surprised.

That's the most bullshit challenge ever issued.  Every muslim leader I name who has supported terrorism you will discredit BASED ON those comments.  By definition, if they support terrorism they aren't credible.

But as far as HIGH PROFIL muslim leaders?  Holy shit... where does it stop?

How about this for a statistic?

"A 2004 Pew survey revealed that Osama bin Laden is viewed favorably by large percentages in Pakistan (65%), Jordan (55%) and Morocco (45%). In Turkey as many as 31% say that suicide attacks against Americans and other Westerners in Iraq are justifiable."

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=206
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_11-7-2003_pg4_6

The list of muslim leaders that have supported and encouraged terrorism is long and distinguished, including a significant number of elected political leaders as well.

Of course i'm not a fan of these attacks- i missed the bus bomb by 2 minutes- but i do not for a second believe that the majority of Muslims believe these acts are 'right and just'.

No one said a "majority" of them actively supported it.  But it doesn't take a majority to corrupt an entire religion.  It takes a minority and approval by INACTION from the rest.

Moreover, the actions of angry and outraged male muslims in the middle east are more the actions of people who are poor, unemployed and oppressed, rather than actions that stem from a belief in the Islamic faith.

Except I sat and listened to Zena spouting the same extremist bullshit that middle eastern muslims spout.

According to this, from your own papers, 6% of British Muslims say that the bombing in London was JUSTIFIED!  6%!  IN ENGLAND!  This isn't the middle east here... this is YOUR BACK YARD.

[Grakthis]

It's not a few priests, there are hundreds of books and a few movies about it.

Your logic is impecable.  If there are "hundreds of books and movies about it" (which there aren't, BTW) then it must be more than a few priests.  I am defeated by your spotless debating skills.  Bravo, chap.

And the catholic church does promote homophobia in a big way; a big part of seeking for happiness in life for most people is finding someone to love and share your life with(in every aspect, even sexual) and if because of your sexual orientation that person is someone of your own sex, and  because of that someone tell you that that is wrong, thats homophobia. Allowing straight people to do things that you condemn gay people for doing THAT'S HOMOPHOBIA.
Condemning gay unios, THAT'S HOMOPHOBIA. And the catholic church does all of those things all the time.

Uh.  No it's not.  You apparently do not know what the word homophobia means.  You are confused, and - well, let's be honest here - stupid.  You should look up what homophobia means and then return to this discussion.

The Catholic Church applies the same rule to gay sex that it applies to hetrosexual sex.  Sex is for procreation amongst a married couple.  Period.

Because you think that homophobia is ok doesn't mean that it is.

That is both a cute strawman and a nice ad hom argument.  Oh wait, those words are probably too big for you.  Let me rephrase:

1) You still don't know what homophobia is.
2) I neither support homophobia, nor do I support the Catholic Church's stance on gay marriage.
3) Regardless of if I did or not, it is totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand

I went to a catholic school for 11 years, and I never heard "Being gay is ok" from them, SO DON'T ARGUE WHAT I KNOW, AND THE WORLD KNOWS, WITH YOUR BULLSHIT.

I went to catholic schools for 16 years.  8 years of grade school, 4 years of HS and 4 years of college.

I was ALWAYS TAUGHT love the sinner, hate the sin.  NEVER in the history of the Catholic Church has the Pope condemnced homosexuals.  He has condemned gay sex... but he has also said ALL SODOMY IS WRONG, even amongst straight couples.

Apparently you do not know, nor does the world know.  Here, let me provide you with some links to shove in your face hole.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_rom.htm
http://www.americancatholic.org/News/Homosexuality/default.asp
http://www.catholic.com/library/gay_marriage.asp


I found this paragraph particularly interesting...

"The term homophobic refers to fear of homosexuality. This term often is used by homosexual activists to end rational discussion of the issue by accusing their opponents of having an irrational fear. This is unjust. One can disagree with and be critical of a behavior without having a fear of it. When the charge of "homophobia" is made, it signifies that those making the accusation do not have reasoned responses to their critics, so they switch to portraying their critics as irrational rather than responding to their arguments."

So... in summary
1) You use words you do not understand
2) You make terrible arguments
3) You do not even understand the teachings of your own faith
4) Shut your pie hole, before you embarass yourself further
5) What tangent do you want to take this discussion down next (since gay marriage is totally irrelevant to weather or not muslim extremists are stupid)?  Whichever one you choose, I feel confident you will be wrong about it too.

[Grakthis]

I'm done with this topic, my entire position is wrong, my argument has been refuted, and I look like a complete moron.  I will now go put on a black hoodie and listen to brighteyes while running a knife down my arm.

Fixed for reality.

[PIBby]

Oh lord... are you really comparing a few priests who molested choir boys to a religion condoning mass murder?  Seriously?

Know what you're talking about before you criticize someone else's side of an argument. Your epitomization of the story includes thorough, factual information of the Magdalene Scandals as to the extent that, "Yeah, Hitler killed a couple Jews because he could," does the Holocaust justice. (NOTE: I'm not saying that the Church's recent UK scandal is near as horrific as the Holocaust, though both were awful.)

Any killing of civilians is accidental casualties, and the US army isn't even involved in raids ATM. Maybe you missed it, but security is the responsibility of the Iraqi army now. We're there for support.

Are YOU fucking serious? Read the newspaper. So fellow Louisvillian, assuming that you do actually read the newspaper and - like most people - aren't talking out of your ass, I'm going to say you read the article one or two weeks ago about the American soldiers on trial. (Not those soldiers, and no, not those either, or those, not that massacre, etc. Am I right? So you are aware that they raided a village, claimed most the people there were terrorists, so they bombed the city. You already know about that though; I'm sure you do. Not to mention the four examples I gave prior to this post, told to me by a veteran of the Iraq War. Yes, my sources are very unreliable . . .

A leader who advocates violence will not be credible in the international community.

Nothin' wrong with Dubya I suppose . . .

The list of muslim leaders that have supported and encouraged terrorism is long and distinguished, including a significant number of elected political leaders as well.

So we KNOW they're ACTUAL terrorists. Not some innocent Arab-LOOKING person we've held captive in Guantamo - purposely off American soil because, well, what it's for pretty much contradicts (totally) one of our basic rights. We're even paying for it: $160 million/year for you people who care about money (and money only regardless of the living conditions of everyone else in the world). I'd guess just like we knew Iraq had WMDs, Rumsfield.

I was ALWAYS TAUGHT love the sinner, hate the sin.

At St. X? No you didn't. Don't lie. Maybe substitute "the sinner" and "sin" for "money" and "people who actually know what's going on" and your statement will be more accurate. To be honest, that enormous circle-jerk/clique is about the most ignorant, narrow-minded, inconsiderate, bigot, stingy, unempathetic (the list goes on) group of people about which I've ever known.

*****

Continuing the relevant discussion, what do you suppose we do to "stop terrorism" considering that - because it IS our reason for being in Iraq - the WAR ON TERROR (surprisingly, might I add  :roll: ) didn't do such a thing? Additionally, we're in the process of figuring out a way to pull out (not the birth control method, Benedict), so obviously it didn't work. Maybe killing thousands and thousands and thousands of innocent people doesn't end terrorism and is in fact terrorism in itself. Who would've thought?

[Grakthis]

Know what you're talking about before you criticize someone else's side of an argument. Your epitomization of the story includes thorough, factual information of the Magdalene Scandals as to the extent that, "Yeah, Hitler killed a couple Jews because he could," does the Holocaust justice. (NOTE: I'm not saying that the Church's recent UK scandal is near as horrific as the Holocaust, though both were awful.)

WTF are you even talking about?  Speak English plz.

Are YOU fucking serious? Read the newspaper. So fellow Louisvillian, assuming that you do actually read the newspaper and - like most people - aren't talking out of your ass, I'm going to say you read the article one or two weeks ago about the American soldiers on trial. (Not those soldiers, and no, not those either, or those, not that massacre, etc. Am I right? So you are aware that they raided a village, claimed most the people there were terrorists, so they bombed the city. You already know about that though; I'm sure you do. Not to mention the four examples I gave prior to this post, told to me by a veteran of the Iraq War. Yes, my sources are very unreliable . . .

That doesn't even REFUTE what I said!  The soldiers who did things WRONG were going AGAINST US POLICY.  They are being TRIED for it!  They are going to JAIL for it!

We didn't condone it, it wasn't policy and no one thinks it's OK.

So we KNOW they're ACTUAL terrorists. Not some innocent Arab-LOOKING person we've held captive in Guantamo - purposely off American soil because, well, what it's for pretty much contradicts (totally) one of our basic rights.

Yeah.  Pretty much.  Also, someone with no citizenship has no rights so it's pretty much impossible for us to breach the basic rights of anyone held at Guantanamo. :teach:

At St. X? No you didn't. Don't lie. Maybe substitute "the sinner" and "sin" for "money" and "people who actually know what's going on" and your statement will be more accurate. To be honest, that enormous circle-jerk/clique is about the most ignorant, narrow-minded, inconsiderate, bigot, stingy, unempathetic (the list goes on) group of people about which I've ever known.

K.  Another person who's jealous of the education and community at a Catholic high school.  I bet you hate Notre Dame too... I bet it just TEARS you up that these schools are not only extremely well rated nationally but that they teach solid moral values.

Yes, we were taught the proper Catholic catechism at St. X.  I don't care if you believe it, accept it or otherwise doubt it.  You didn't go to school there.  You don't have the slightest clue what they taught.

How stupid would it be for St. X. to teach something that is SPECIFICALLY AGAINST the Pope's own decrees?

You're totally clueless.  You're desperatly looking for something to rebel against, and since you can't find an actual cause, you're just picking something at random.  I know it sucks being a teenager, and all.  But you'll grow out of it.

Continuing the relevant discussion, what do you suppose we do to "stop terrorism" considering that - because it IS our reason for being in Iraq - the WAR ON TERROR (surprisingly, might I add  :roll: ) didn't do such a thing? Additionally, we're in the process of figuring out a way to pull out (not the birth control method, Benedict), so obviously it didn't work. Maybe killing thousands and thousands and thousands of innocent people doesn't end terrorism and is in fact terrorism in itself. Who would've thought?

What in the fuck are you even talking about?!?

Since when is this about what *I* think we should do to stop terrorism?  That has ABSOLUTLY NOTHING to do with the current discussion.

If you want to fight about that, start a fucking thread.  It doesn't belong here.

This thread is about how the Muslim community is ripe with extremists, hate mongers and violent radicalts.

[PIBby]

WTF are you even talking about?  Speak English plz.

I'm sorry, I suppose I forgot that the only acceptable language in America is 'Merican

The soldiers who did things WRONG were going AGAINST US POLICY.  They are being TRIED for it!  They are going to JAIL for it!

We didn't condone it, it wasn't policy and no one thinks it's OK.

It's still happening. And it's not that "no one" thinks it's okay, it's that "no one" who is capable of doing something about it will actually take charge. The soldiers don't even view those people as people; talk to a soldier who doesn't have some psychological disorder (due to their service in the war) and listen to his perspective: "The only people that matter are Americans." APATHY. They don't CARE. And to say that there's just a select few soldiers who commit these awful, awful acts is unbelievably ignorant. It happens every day. Why do you think the number of civilian deaths is SUBSTANTIALLY higher than all soldiers (US, Al-qaida, etc.) combined? There's obviously shit going on over there and regardless if it's considered a war crime, it's still wrong; beings that once lived don't anymore. And you can honestly say that it's okay? Or that it's justified because it's not been declared a war crime? "War crime" is redundant. No one deserves to die, and all war is wrong.

Also, someone with no citizenship has no rights so it's pretty much impossible for us to breach the basic rights of anyone held at Guantanamo.

It's not just people with "no citizenship" (and our concept and definition of "citizenship" is totally distorted and fucked up to meet our gross economic, capitalist standard and to secure the power of those currently in power - don't you know about the Jim Crow Laws?), they're American people, too. Post-9/11 America: ask (if you know someone who ALMOST kind of maybe possibly in a way looks middle-eastern) them how they were treated after September 11. I promise it wasn't nice.

Another person who's jealous of the education and community at a Catholic high school.

Ha. Yes. I am SO jealous of my high school, let me tell you . . .

I bet you hate Notre Dame too... I bet it just TEARS you up that these schools are not only extremely well rated nationally but that they teach solid moral values.

I've got nothing against Notre Dame at all, actually. But solid moral values? That's funny. They teach the Catholic church's catechism and, I'm assuming with St. X's weird, cigar-smoking, conservative background, don't give a shit, either. They can teach it, but VERY FEW of their students focus on it. The catechism has nothing to do with acceptance or tolerance, it's the Church's law.

You're totally clueless.  You're desperatly looking for something to rebel against, and since you can't find an actual cause, you're just picking something at random.  I know it sucks being a teenager, and all.  But you'll grow out of it.

Yes . . . because being ten years younger than you and aware of what's going makes me clueless. I want to help people, that's all I want. I'm sick of injustice and hopefully, by the time I'm old enough to actually make a difference, I won't have "grown out" of it, because I have a feeling that most of America did that and that's the reason our country is this way today.

And fuck that.

This thread is about how the Muslim community is ripe with extremists, hate mongers and violent radicalts.

Those people are EVERYWHERE. What is so hard to understand . . . Out of all the murders committed in 2006 AND Louisville alone, would it be safe to assume that the "crazy fuckin' black people" or "crazy fuckin' white people" are collectively at fault?

Jesus isn't fond of the Pope. No disrespect to either of them, but I'm almost positive. And I know you're going to pull some shit like, "You don't know because you've never talked to Jesus . . ."

I don't know. All I'm waiting for is empathy. If you had been taught all your life that your religion was the only acceptable one (which I think, as Catholics, we both have) and you 100% believed that those who didn't agree were wrong and you had the ability to take action, you would do it. Start at the root of terrorism is all I'm saying. Figure out why these people are doing this and stop it. Don't imprison innocent Hindu people in Cuba . . .

[Grakthis]

It's still happening. And it's not that "no one" thinks it's okay, it's that "no one" who is capable of doing something about it will actually take charge. The soldiers don't even view those people as people; talk to a soldier who doesn't have some psychological disorder (due to their service in the war) and listen to his perspective: "The only people that matter are Americans." APATHY. They don't CARE. And to say that there's just a select few soldiers who commit these awful, awful acts is unbelievably ignorant. It happens every day. Why do you think the number of civilian deaths is SUBSTANTIALLY higher than all soldiers (US, Al-qaida, etc.) combined? There's obviously shit going on over there and regardless if it's considered a war crime, it's still wrong; beings that once lived don't anymore. And you can honestly say that it's okay? Or that it's justified because it's not been declared a war crime? "War crime" is redundant. No one deserves to die, and all war is wrong.

Proof?  Link?  Cite?  You're making shit up again.....

I can play that game too....   Iraq is a free and democratic government, with elected leaders, their own army and police force, and a citizenship that is happier and better off now than before.

See?  I can quote party lines.

Doesn't make any of it true.

It's not just people with "no citizenship" (and our concept and definition of "citizenship" is totally distorted and fucked up to meet our gross economic, capitalist standard and to secure the power of those currently in power - don't you know about the Jim Crow Laws?), they're American people, too. Post-9/11 America: ask (if you know someone who ALMOST kind of maybe possibly in a way looks middle-eastern) them how they were treated after September 11. I promise it wasn't nice.

No.  We do not define "citizenship."  The UN and geneva convention do.  The people held at GiTo have no citizenship.  Their countries of birth REFUSE to claim them because then places like Cuba would have to admit they sponsored acts of terrorism.  So since their home countries don't claim them, and they have no proof of citizenship, they are not subject to the rules of the Geneva convention.  Period.

And no one is disagreeing that how George handled the post 9/11 roundup was fucked up.  I have not, and would not, argue that.  But how is it in ANY way relevant to the discussion at hand?

Ha. Yes. I am SO jealous of my high school, let me tell you . . .

QUICK! EVERYONE RUN BEFORE SHE FINDS SOMETHING NEW TO REBEL AGAINST!

I've got nothing against Notre Dame at all, actually. But solid moral values? That's funny. They teach the Catholic church's catechism and, I'm assuming with St. X's weird, cigar-smoking, conservative background, don't give a shit, either. They can teach it, but VERY FEW of their students focus on it. The catechism has nothing to do with acceptance or tolerance, it's the Church's law.

1) I went to St.X.  80% of my teachers were hardcore liberals.  Our dean, our president and ONE of the relgion teachers were about the only conservatives I know of.  Academia is almost NEVER conservative.

2) I have no clue what CURRENT St.X. students look like, but when I was there it was almost entirely a very liberal school.  The student base was easily 50% grungers, drama kids, nerds and hippies.  I find it completely unbelievable that the school has changed that much since 97.

3) Church law IS acceptance and tolerance, you twit.

4) You got something against cigar smoking?  Actually, the only smoker on St.X's staff was Mr. Dunnigan.  The groundskeeper.

Yes . . . because being ten years younger than you and aware of what's going makes me clueless. I want to help people, that's all I want. I'm sick of injustice and hopefully, by the time I'm old enough to actually make a difference, I won't have "grown out" of it, because I have a feeling that most of America did that and that's the reason our country is this way today.

You have no clue what's going on, CeCe.  You're a kid.  You believe what your friends write on their myspace blogs.  You don't read the paper, you don't watch the news.  You hear snippits in the hall on your way to class, and you listen to your liberal social studies teacher and think it's law.

Start quoting some sources on your data, make relevant argumetns, and make FACTUAL arguments, and we can talk.

In the mean time, you're just a walking hormone looking for something to be excited about.  You will get over it.

Those people are EVERYWHERE. What is so hard to understand . . . Out of all the murders committed in 2006 AND Louisville alone, would it be safe to assume that the "crazy fuckin' black people" or "crazy fuckin' white people" are collectively at fault?

No.  but it would be safe to say that the "crazy fuckin' poor and uneducated are at fault."  Because that is one thing the vast majority of violent criminals have in common.

Jesus isn't fond of the Pope. No disrespect to either of them, but I'm almost positive. And I know you're going to pull some shit like, "You don't know because you've never talked to Jesus . . ."

1) You don't know because you've never talked to Jesus
2) I am not fond of the Pope.  So I am not sure what your poitn is.
3) Jesus appointed the first Pope... so if you mean the Pope as a position, you're wrong.

I don't know. All I'm waiting for is empathy. If you had been taught all your life that your religion was the only acceptable one (which I think, as Catholics, we both have) and you 100% believed that those who didn't agree were wrong and you had the ability to take action, you would do it. Start at the root of terrorism is all I'm saying. Figure out why these people are doing this and stop it. Don't imprison innocent Hindu people in Cuba . . .

No... Catholic teaching says that ANY RELIGION THAT ACCEPTS ONE GOD can make it to heaven.  It is a CORE belief of the faith.  You don't even have to accept Jesus... you just have to accept one God in heaven and live your life as a good person.

The root of terrorism is a radical faith that teaches dying to destory your enemies gets you a place in an ideal afterlife.  Period.  That is the entire root of terrorism.

Get rid of a faith that GLORIFIES violence and suicide attacks and you get rid of terrorism as we know it.

[me and my piano---tim]

:lol:

[HappyZen]

Except I sat and listened to Zena spouting the same extremist bullshit that middle eastern muslims spout.

I said who to the what now?

How come I got dragged into this?
*sigh* ..

If Andrew you're referring to our discussion way back when to the war of Israel on Lebanon .. you can't just wave these statements around and extend them for any arguement you choose.

My comments then, have nothing to do with now ..
and had NOTHING to do with the fact that I am Muslim.
As a human being with a moral concious what happened in Lebanon was attrocitous. It was Samson and Goliath .. Israel used every ounce of it's military might against the Lebanese civilians .. ignoring every call for cessation of violence .. ignoring international laws of combat .. I mean cluster bombs? Come on ..

Calling me an extremist is so insulting. It not only makes me very sad that you can't differenciate between one thing and another, but it highlights that the whole thing is futile ..

I abhore extremists and extremism, I hate terorists and terrorism I disagree with everything they stand for and what they do, I denounce both with no uncertain terms. I am so ashamed they used my religions name when they commit these terrible disgusting acts ..

I am so sick of people crazy sick men hijacking the name of my religion, my peaceful religion which denounces terrorism and denounces extremism and denounces killing of the innocent for any reason. A religion which promotes true freedom .. free from the desires of being controlled by man made ideologies ..

The root of terrorism is a radical faith that teaches dying to destory your enemies gets you a place in an ideal afterlife. Period. That is the entire root of terrorism.

Get rid of a faith that GLORIFIES violence and suicide attacks and you get rid of terrorism as we know it.

Where do you get your information from?
packoflies.com? letsfoolthegullible.net? Fox?

Islam .. commands love, mercy and peace.
Muslims start everything with "In the name of God most gracious, Most merciful" .. It's the humans that mess everything up not the religion.

Terror, on the other hand, is the opposite of religion; it is cruel, merciless and demands bloodshed and misery. Terrorist act should be sought in disbelief rather than the belief in a religion.
The name or the identity of the triggerman is not important. If he can kill innocent people without blinking an eye, then he just a murderer with no fear of God, whose main ambition is to shed blood and to cause harm.
For this reason, "Islamic terror" is an erronous concept which contradicts the message of Islam. The religion of Islam can by no means countenance terrorism. On the contrary, terror (i.e. murder of innocent people) in Islam is a great sin, and Muslims are responsible for preventing these acts and bringing peace and justice to the world.

http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com

I can't live with certain injustices that I see in the world. My opinions are INDEPENDANT of my religion. (on the by, It was MY journal, and I found it impossible to stay silent when a country I have a connection to thanks to 10 years of spending summers there was facing so much pain and suffering .. )

I am so sick of this so called war on "terror". Having to justify my beliefs because some crazy misinformed loon .. or some poor opressed soul has gone off and done things because he's got his brain wires crossed

But I agree with Andrew .. what a silly bunch of people .. how they get riled up about every single little comment .. sweating the small stuff .. why can't they set the track straight leading by example?

The pope apologised .. That's it! It should have ended there ..

We all know that in the refence time frame of what the pope said, there was never any organized attempt to force the acceptance of Islam on the non-Muslim population, or of any systematic persecution intended to stamp out the Christian religion.
And that wars to conqur lands we normal all countries fought to gain control of other countries and land .. gosh we're still doing it NOW! 15 centuaries later!!! Why should we single out one incident?.. at least Islam gave the inhabitants rights ..  The life and property of all citizens in an Islamic state are considered sacred whether the person is Muslim or not.

Why do they have to go all psycho when all they have to do is lead by exapmle?

We all know that Muhammed came at a truely ugly time in human history .. and brought about many positive things ..
http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch10.html

So what does it matter what one pope quotes one archaic Byzantin emporor?

There are so many issues in this thread I don't even know what to say ..

But .. for goodness sake .. the pope apologised, and the whole world is over it.

And that Andrew .. wow .. I didn't realise you hated Muslim people so much and I didn't realise were so ignorant of them ..
or maybe you just read what ever you want to read and never scratch the surface .. I don't kow! But really .. wow!
But i'm so disappointed .. maybe if people like you listened and saw things with your heart instead of with an aggressive head ..
And people actually listened to people like me instead of accusing me of spouting off like an extremist ..

No. but it would be safe to say that the "crazy fuckin' poor and uneducated are at fault." Because that is one thing the vast majority of violent criminals have in common.

Sure .. then why can't entertain that same though for Muslim people ...
These crazy fanatics act independant of any sanity or any religion ..

I tell you what the 1.5 Billion muslims aren't going anywhere soon .. And since it is the fastest growing religion .. understanding dialoug and tolerance might be a good thing .. maybe the world can reflect on the current crisis in the world, and think of how to make it fair for everyone rather than pulling out some random quote from 6 centuraries ago ..

I believe the Muslim mainstream will be the most powerful weapon in the "war on terror".

It is a good idea therefore separate extremists from moderates ..

Maybe the time is when people quit focusing on what muslims do .. but rather on what they should be doing? I give them examples of what their Prophets did .. Jesus was a prophet of ours .. and he taught great things .. Muhammed taught great things too .. I think that's what leaders and people should be doing .. rather than critisizing and pointing the finger ..

Remind Muslims that a religion of peace calls on people to be peaceful and act peacefully and that they are obliged to live by the laws of the country that they live in. And a religion that invites you to contempate shouldn't have it's believers following blindly one cause or person without using instincts and common sense .. instead of always attacking them

The majority of us are ok ;-)

[Grakthis]

tl;dr.

If you actually expect people to read your hate propaganda, Z, you should keep it shorter.