Author Topic: Heroes And Thieves - Live Video!  (Read 20526 times)

Manny

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« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2006, 06:50:36 am »
I dont think a child could be able to write a song about s3x  :roll:

PianoGirl4444

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« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2006, 08:22:17 am »
Quote from: "medic0803"
I dont think a child could be able to write a song about s3x  :roll:


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VanessaPiana

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« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2006, 05:50:04 pm »
Quote
k.. so apparently you don't even like her. so 1. why are you here. 2. why is your handle based on music you don't like very much.

 :roll:


Don't get me wrong, I DO like V... note that I said 'juvenille' instead of 'immature', which is in a way a good thing. I guess Van's writing/singing/piano playing style is juvie. If I didn't like her, I wouldn't be listening to her music. I did think the piano in HAT was rather predictable, sounding more like a movie theme than a pop/Indie song. I guess it's Van's classical roots showing through.

jsbachsonata

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« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2006, 03:26:16 am »
finally someone who understands what I think :) I love vanessa or else why would I be here? This is just my opinion and as a fan I am not obligated to like every song she sings.

Maybe vanessa could benefit from a more formal study of songwriting... with a classical background i think it wouldn't be difficult for her, but if she has to rely on her "hit or miss" songwriting skills at the moment, then i don't she will go very far. She has a talent for songwriting but just relying on probing her way blindlessly through the art of songwriting herself will ultimately cost her her career. I think one of the best ways she could learn is if she stopped being an isolated, headstrong artist and would engage in more co-writing with renowned composers.

If she's making mistakes and she learns from herself, she's bound to make the same mistakes again.

PutYourHandsOnMe101

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« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2006, 06:23:11 am »
Quote from: "jsbachsonata"
finally someone who understands what I think :) I love vanessa or else why would I be here? This is just my opinion and as a fan I am not obligated to like every song she sings.

Maybe vanessa could benefit from a more formal study of songwriting... with a classical background i think it wouldn't be difficult for her, but if she has to rely on her "hit or miss" songwriting skills at the moment, then i don't she will go very far. She has a talent for songwriting but just relying on probing her way blindlessly through the art of songwriting herself will ultimately cost her her career. I think one of the best ways she could learn is if she stopped being an isolated, headstrong artist and would engage in more co-writing with renowned composers.

If she's making mistakes and she learns from herself, she's bound to make the same mistakes again.


Co-writing you say.... kind of like what she is ALREADY doing with Linda Perry and SJ  :roll:
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PutYourHandsOnMe101

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« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2006, 06:24:02 am »
Quote from: "jsbachsonata"
finally someone who understands what I think :) I love vanessa or else why would I be here? This is just my opinion and as a fan I am not obligated to like every song she sings.

Maybe vanessa could benefit from a more formal study of songwriting... with a classical background i think it wouldn't be difficult for her, but if she has to rely on her "hit or miss" songwriting skills at the moment, then i don't she will go very far. She has a talent for songwriting but just relying on probing her way blindlessly through the art of songwriting herself will ultimately cost her her career. I think one of the best ways she could learn is if she stopped being an isolated, headstrong artist and would engage in more co-writing with renowned composers.

If she's making mistakes and she learns from herself, she's bound to make the same mistakes again.


edit: sorry 'bout the double post

And the only mistake of Harmonium is that hardly anyone knew about it...and it seems that people loved the songwriting on BNN.... Of course V could and will get better at this but she does take this very seriously and I don't think she is anywhere close to "probing through the art of songwriting blindlessly" but you can think and say whatever you want. I don't think you are trying to criticize but unfortunately it came out that way. :?
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amberbeads

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« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2006, 11:01:36 am »
i just don't understand why, if vanessa's piano is boring and juvenile and you have to spice it up and do it better than her, she has a record deal and you guys don't.
*natalie*



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ordinaryday6

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« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2006, 12:09:32 pm »
Quote from: "jsbachsonata"
finally someone who understands what I think :) I love vanessa or else why would I be here? This is just my opinion and as a fan I am not obligated to like every song she sings.


you're not criticizing one song. or even every song. you're criticizing her as an artist.

Quote from: jsbachsonata
Maybe vanessa could benefit from a more formal study of songwriting... with a classical background i think it wouldn't be difficult for her, but if she has to rely on her "hit or miss" songwriting skills
Quote from: "jsbachsonata"
at the moment, then i don't she will go very far.


cuz she hasn't gone far enough already? hit or miss? the fact that harmonium didn't go commercially far, is not her fault. it's her label's fault.

Quote from: "jsbachsonata"
She has a talent for songwriting but just relying on probing her way blindlessly through the art of songwriting herself will ultimately cost her her career.


i'm glad we've got the expert on first-hand experience with record deals to give her advice. glad it's gotten you so far.

Quote from: "jsbachsonata"
I think one of the best ways she could learn is if she stopped being an isolated, headstrong artist and would engage in more co-writing with renowned composers.


headstrong? how the fuck is she headstrong? all she ever did was make music that she loves, and the rest of us love. if staying true to who you are as an artist makes you headstrong and isolated, then by all means, she can be as headstrong as she likes.

Quote from: "jsbachsonata"
If she's making mistakes and she learns from herself, she's bound to make the same mistakes again.


this just plain doesn't make sense. if she's learning from her mistakes, then she won't make them again. i have no idea what you're trying to say, but maybe you should just stop talking now, and quit while you're not too far behind.

and PYHOM101 and nat, rock on.
Samuel
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« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2006, 12:17:12 pm »
Yes, a lot of V songs are repetitive which makes it easier for someone like me to learn- I've never been formally taught. But I think part of what makes her music so clever is that it is usually quite simple, but still sounds really nice. I'm sure she can play a lot of more complicated things, but it's a little harder to compose songs that complex (in my opinion). Or maybe it's just her personal choice!

You don't need to act superior though, like you are better than her- as if you are tiring of her- haughty much?

PianoGirl4444

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« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2006, 02:29:32 pm »
A song doesn't have to be difficult in order to be great.  Almost all great pop songs are simple.  It's about MELODY.
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Manny

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« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2006, 02:43:14 pm »
Quote from: "PianoGirl4444"
A song doesn't have to be difficult in order to be great.  Almost all great pop songs are simple.  It's about MELODY.


I second this  :wink:  just like A thousand miles.. in my opinion the lyrics isn't really great.. but the piano riff is  8O  8O  8O  8O  8O  8O  8O  8O  amazing!.. most of my friends know her as the "ATM girl" and they are like.. mhm.. what's her name ?  :twisted:

VanessaPiana

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« Reply #56 on: November 20, 2006, 08:37:50 pm »
Quote from: "amberbeads"
i just don't understand why, if vanessa's piano is boring and juvenile and you have to spice it up and do it better than her, she has a record deal and you guys don't.


I'm working on a record deal, FYI. I'm thinking about sending my demo to David Foster, who I love to death. He's a very talented producer who's one of the music industry's biggest giants. I KNOW for sure he's gonna be impressed with me b/c his style is similar, except the stuff he composes is more complex and spontaneous, which is why he's been so successful all these years. I wouldn't describe him as 'famous', but he is well-known and his resume of the great artists he's worked with over the years is pretty impressive [AND long]. But if he rejects it, then I'll understand. Just meeting the man would be good enough for me. If you want advice about how to survive in the mainstream world of pop music, then he's the man that could tell you nothing wrong, b/c he's been in the music biz for 35-40 years. He definitely makes a lot sense to me. Maybe V should consult with him and recieve constructive critisism from him, trust me, we'll all see improvement w/ her career [like jsbachsonata was saying]. But I guess she has too much pride for that.

Anyway, about Van, the problem is that most of her songs have a certain meter to them [except a few, like Papa]. There's the intro [sometimes], 1st verse, chorus, 2nd verse, chorus, bridge and/or instrumental break, then the chorus once or twice, then the ending. I guess it's the way it goes in popular music. It's nice that Van likes being different and being herself, but it's not gonna work, much less win you a Grammy in the cruel, bigshot mainstream popular world. If there's one thing I've learned is that to get along in life, you have to establish balance and learn to compromise. Don't mess all over everyone, but don't let yourself go lacking at the same time. Just look at Alicia Keys [who I'm also a big fan of; her new LP just ain't comin' out fast enough for me], who's won [I forgot how many] Grammys. She co-writes and produces w/ her producer/bf Krucial Keys, a few friends and others, but she also writes some of her stuff by herself, but it doesn't take away from how talented she truly is, or from the fact that she can just sit down and just sing and play and be just as entertaining to watch.

I don't whine about how 'unpopular' Van is; I have no problem with that. For starters, it has to be 'written in the stars' or your destiny to be a mainstream artist. V complains about how mizundastood she, her music, musciainship, and artistry is by the record execs, and how cutthroat the music industry is, but that's ALWAYS how it's been, and that's never gonna change any way you work it. Moreover, she brings it on herself by not doing anything about it by making her stuff more commercial [if if weren't for Ron Fair and the other producers, her sound and songs wouldn't've improved]. V's debut is more mainstream, but her sophmore is more Indie and Indie-sounding to me. I'm not suggesting V compromise and sell out like all the other kooky female singers/actresses out there, but she does need to stretch herself out some if she wants to stick out more. But on the other hand, classy artists, no matter how talented they are, will be in the minority most of the time [a la Leann Rimes and Josh Groban, a coupla of the best, not to mention my favorite, vocalists of all time]. It's not fair that these people don't get as much recognition for their talent as many of the lesser-talented more popular mainstream artists, but that's the way it is. It takes a lot to impress the music industry, much more the general public.

I know no one's perfect, but I heard V on 'Nice to Meet You; the Making of Harmonium' slightly boast about how good her sophmore was. That may have been true to her fans, but what may be good to YOU may not be to someone else. When I first bought the record back in 1/05, I didn't really like most of the songs up there, but after 3 weeks [around the time I took it back to Wal-Mart b/c I needed the $$$], I loved every song up there.

Elicia

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« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2006, 09:05:01 pm »
Quote from: "VanessaPiana"
Quote from: "amberbeads"
i just don't understand why, if vanessa's piano is boring and juvenile and you have to spice it up and do it better than her, she has a record deal and you guys don't.


I'm working on a record deal, FYI. I'm thinking about sending my demo to David Foster, who I love to death. He's a very talented producer who's one of the music industry's biggest giants. I KNOW for sure he's gonna be impressed with me b/c his style is similar, except the stuff he composes is more complex and spontaneous, which is why he's been so successful all these years. I wouldn't describe him as 'famous', but he is well-known and his resume of the great artists he's worked with over the years is pretty impressive [AND long]. But if he rejects it, then I'll understand. Just meeting the man would be good enough for me. If you want advice about how to survive in the mainstream world of pop music, then he's the man that could tell you nothing wrong, b/c he's been in the music biz for 35-40 years. He definitely makes a lot sense to me. Maybe V should consult with him and recieve constructive critisism from him, trust me, we'll all see improvement w/ her career [like jsbachsonata was saying]. But I guess she has too much pride for that.

Anyway, about Van, the problem is that most of her songs have a certain meter to them [except a few, like Papa]. There's the intro [sometimes], 1st verse, chorus, 2nd verse, chorus, bridge and/or instrumental break, then the chorus once or twice, then the ending. I guess it's the way it goes in popular music. It's nice that Van likes being different and being herself, but it's not gonna work, much less win you a Grammy in the cruel, bigshot mainstream popular world. If there's one thing I've learned is that to get along in life, you have to establish balance and learn to compromise. Don't mess all over everyone, but don't let yourself go lacking at the same time. Just look at Alicia Keys [who I'm also a big fan of; her new LP just ain't comin' out fast enough for me], who's won [I forgot how many] Grammys. She co-writes and produces w/ her producer/bf Krucial Keys, a few friends and others, but she also writes some of her stuff by herself, but it doesn't take away from how talented she truly is, or from the fact that she can just sit down and just sing and play and be just as entertaining to watch.

I don't whine about how 'unpopular' Van is; I have no problem with that. For starters, it has to be 'written in the stars' or your destiny to be a mainstream artist. V complains about how mizundastood she, her music, musciainship, and artistry is by the record execs, and how cutthroat the music industry is, but that's ALWAYS how it's been, and that's never gonna change any way you work it. Moreover, she brings it on herself by not doing anything about it by making her stuff more commercial [if if weren't for Ron Fair and the other producers, her sound and songs wouldn't've improved]. V's debut is more mainstream, but her sophmore is more Indie and Indie-sounding to me. I'm not suggesting V compromise and sell out like all the other kooky female singers/actresses out there, but she does need to stretch herself out some if she wants to stick out more. But on the other hand, classy artists, no matter how talented they are, will be in the minority most of the time [a la Leann Rimes and Josh Groban, a coupla of the best, not to mention my favorite, vocalists of all time]. It's not fair that these people don't get as much recognition for their talent as many of the lesser-talented more popular mainstream artists, but that's the way it is. It takes a lot to impress the music industry, much more the general public.

I know no one's perfect, but I heard V on 'Nice to Meet You; the Making of Harmonium' slightly boast about how good her sophmore was. That may have been true to her fans, but what may be good to YOU may not be to someone else. When I first bought the record back in 1/05, I didn't really like most of the songs up there, but after 3 weeks [around the time I took it back to Wal-Mart b/c I needed the $$$], I loved every song up there.

Elicia




Alicia Keys has been in the music industry long enough to establish herself but because Harmonium got very minimal promotion V hasn't had the chance yet. The last time V said anything negative about the music industry she also said something like "that's just the way it goes sometimes... welcome to the music business" so I wouldn't call her a complainer....I have no problem with you stating that it may help V if she stretches herself a little but you are just cutting her down as an artist and making her sound like she doesn't know anything about the music biz.... not cool  :(

Really, I think V has tapped into her real talent. You said Heroes and Thieves was boring and predictable but I think it's classic... I can feel her emotion pouring through the song. Seriously, it almost makes me tear up.

Like Sammie said, all she ever wanted to do was make music that she loved and I don't know about you but I'll always be listening to the sometimes beautifully simple but hardly boring songs that she'll make :D
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« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2006, 05:52:04 am »
Quote from: "amberbeads"
i just don't understand why, if vanessa's piano is boring and juvenile and you have to spice it up and do it better than her, she has a record deal and you guys don't.


What a piss poor argument. That's like saying- "You say George Bush is a bad president, but you're not president so that means he must be right".

Why do you have to jump down everyone's throats who even thinks to critically assess Vanessa's work? It's not a personal insult to her or to you- grow up a bit and learn that criticism is a key part of life.

I completely agree that her songwriting style is very simple lately- to me it sounds less and less complex and the songs are getting more and more like nursery rhymes. That's not to say i don't find them pleasant songs- but i don't think there's any particular genius behind them like i did with BnN.
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Manny

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« Reply #59 on: November 21, 2006, 10:23:02 am »
Quote from: "amberbeads"
i just don't understand why, if vanessa's piano is boring and juvenile and you have to spice it up and do it better than her, she has a record deal and you guys don't.


she's got 2 albums.. and they dont  :razz: