Author Topic: Fan Reviews of Heroes and Thieves  (Read 35921 times)

Journey_to

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Re: Spring Street.....and the new album
« Reply #90 on: September 30, 2007, 03:00:26 am »
Quote from: "**Ann-Marie89**"
I just feel that creatively, Vanessa showed SO much more variety of styles and ideas in her old stuff! Compare Red Ditty, Papa, A Thousand Miles, Unsung, Prince, Birdie, and Twilight. All very different from each other. But to me, The One, This Time, and Home are all very similar.


The stuff does have a similar feel, but it is a concept album and i got the impression it was all supposed to fit together like that,kind of like the chapters of a book: the same feel, but different materials.....
Personally,I agree to some degree with that statement quoted..but i dont feel it as a bad thing..i love harmonium for it's variety and i love heroes and thieves for the way it all fits together...

**Ann-Marie89**

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« Reply #91 on: September 30, 2007, 03:25:22 am »
Yay! Thankyou!

Have you listened to Regina Spektor's new CD? You know there are a few songs on it that sound CREEPILY similar to Nessa's old stuff.  8O

"Apres Moi" is an awesome song- its similar to Papa and the Wreckage Combined. But I still Love our Nessa the most! ^_^

Katherine Ann Marie xox
**Ann-Marie like a mirror of what you wanna be**

*Tutorials* and Nessa Song Demonstrations of Accurate Transcriptions from Me, Myself and I, as well as Pianobea, Blueglove and Maag (mentioned on each song where applicable) on Youtube! Yay!! (Go See! ^_^)

http://www.youtube.com/NZannmarie89

HarmySandwhich

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« Reply #92 on: September 30, 2007, 03:46:18 am »
Quote from: "Jophess"
Okay, I'm going to go on a mini-rant.

It's sorta bothering how people are saying "Spring Street is the new Afterglow... Fools Like Me is the new Private Radio... HaT is the new OD, etc etc etc" Spring Street is the new Spring Street. FlM is the new FlM.... I'll admit that HaT does sound like OD, but it's in 3/4, so HA!

I don't think many people are realizing how different these songs are in terms of the arrangements and the production and the writing style. And it's not fair to just label a fresh song as just a rehash of an old song. It's not fair to V. These songs have a life of their own and they are each unique in their own way.

[/rant]


Jophess, we don't mean it literally. We're just making an analogy that Fools Like Me was what Private Radio was to Harmonium. It's the death of the record if you will. Whoever think they are similar sounding needs a headcheck.

Edit:  :lol:, Liquid, of course. No harm done, we're all fans of hers.


Formerly known as Meraphix

Butz

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« Reply #93 on: September 30, 2007, 06:39:42 am »
I like the indian drumbeats at the end of HOM. Man this song is so good.

therealchriss

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« Reply #94 on: September 30, 2007, 08:29:06 am »
Quote from: "Butz"
I like the indian drumbeats at the end of HOM. Man this song is so good.


dot. dot. dot.

Butz

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« Reply #95 on: September 30, 2007, 09:01:20 am »
I wanna know who produced it. My guess is Irv..

NoelleNC

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Re: Spring Street.....and the new album
« Reply #96 on: September 30, 2007, 09:25:29 am »
Quote from: "**Ann-Marie89**"
To be honest I'm not sure that this album IS Nessa's best work.. Like don't get angry at me its just my opinion, but the whole reason I loved Nessa in the first place was cause I love Classically based music, and I loved how she was so creative not just with words but rhythms and styles too. All her old stuff, especially the B-sides and many off Harmonium like Papa, were all amazing songs that were so original compared to ANYTHING else out there. She has to be the only performer who can play just her and the piano and still sound complete.
With Heroes and Thieves this isn't the case. It needs the back up vocals, the drums, the orchestral arrangements and the layers. I'm just not sure she has stuck to who she is, or whether she is sacrificing her style for the sake of commercial success? Thats not to say I think that's wrong, its all about different priorities. But If you guys listen to Other Linda Perry songs- many of Christina Aguilera's songs are written by her. You can hear the EXACT same construction techniques. Simple compositional techniques like not straying from a key, sticking to simple triad chords (major or minor) modulation, 1st-5th and 7th chord progressions etc. Very "modern" But NOT avante garde or original. Vanessa's new album is very beautiful in its honesty, and I think it will do well. But only because it's content is aimed for those with a limited musical palette. Notice how it's labelled as "Pop"?
I just feel that creatively, Vanessa showed SO much more variety of styles and ideas in her old stuff! Compare Red Ditty, Papa, A Thousand Miles, Unsung, Prince, Birdie, and Twilight. All very different from each other. But to me, The One, This Time, and Home are all very similar. Don't get me wrong I love her stuff! I just think maybe she gave up on her old stuff because people "didn't like it"
So sad.... :(

Anyway just my piece ^_^ Hopefully no one takes offense to this. 8O
And this isn't a dig! I'm just disagreeing with those who think that this is her best album..

Katherine Ann Marie



How do you know all these songs NEED the production to back them up? The only one we've heard live so far that I agree weighs heavily on production to sound complete is "Nolita Fairytale". We've heard This Time, The One, Hands On Me, Home, Heroes and Thieves and Fools Like Me live- and to be honest, with the exception of Hands On Me (imo, bc I like the studio version) I think that all the live versions DO sound complete. I especially like the live versions of Fools Like Me. And that's like half of the album. So idk what you are saying in that respect. We haven't even heard the other songs live, how can we judge?

itsthefiveofus

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« Reply #97 on: September 30, 2007, 09:26:43 am »
mmhmm true I don't know I think its just us having heard some of the songs live like you said it just effects the way you think of it with Nolita Fairytale we heard it live than a few days later we had the single

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portions.for.foxes

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Re: Spring Street.....and the new album
« Reply #98 on: September 30, 2007, 10:02:52 am »
Quote from: "Journey_to"
Quote from: "**Ann-Marie89**"
I just feel that creatively, Vanessa showed SO much more variety of styles and ideas in her old stuff! Compare Red Ditty, Papa, A Thousand Miles, Unsung, Prince, Birdie, and Twilight. All very different from each other. But to me, The One, This Time, and Home are all very similar.


The stuff does have a similar feel, but it is a concept album and i got the impression it was all supposed to fit together like that,kind of like the chapters of a book: the same feel, but different materials.....
Personally,I agree to some degree with that statement quoted..but i dont feel it as a bad thing..i love harmonium for it's variety and i love heroes and thieves for the way it all fits together...


It's really not much of a concept album really, it seems like this whole concept notion was an idea she created as an after thought. If someone listened to this record not knowing it was a "concept album", there would really be nothing to tell the listener that it's actually a concept record.

It seems like she originally wrote a batch of songs, and then was like, "Oh, I think it'd be neat to create a concept around them." And then she started throwing these songs out that didn't fit this concept, like All Is well and Best Behavior, the song themselves aren't really much of a concept. They work well individually. Concept records usually contain songs that do not work individually.
And it's bad news, baby it's bad news
It's just bad news, bad news, bad news
'Cause you're just damage control
For a walking corpse like me - like you,
'Cause we'll all be portions for foxes
Yeah, we'll all be portions for foxes.

amberbeads

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« Reply #99 on: September 30, 2007, 10:22:56 am »
i want to know how we are positive which songs linda perry even produced. i was under the impression that all we know for sure is This Time and Spring Street?

Stephan co-wrote Come Undone, Hands On Me, and Home, and I was pretty sure he helped out on The One as well. I saw him doing production for Hands On Me and The One, and I'm guessing he might have done Home and Come Undone as well since one of his friends does background vocals, plus he cowrote them and he's a bit of a control freak.
Plus Irv was a producer for a lot of it.
So I think we're making some generalizations here about linda perry overcomplicating Vanessa or making her too poppy. But imo V has been pop from the beginning... why is anyone surprised?
*natalie*



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i loved you all the way
i'd pick the fool any day.

HarmySandwhich

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« Reply #100 on: September 30, 2007, 10:33:38 am »
Am I the only one who believes this record is an Alternative record rather than a pop one? It's very similar to how John Mayer's Continuum ended up as.


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snowwhite

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« Reply #101 on: September 30, 2007, 10:52:10 am »
hi out there... i'm new!  :D
anyway, i'm not a native english speaker, so i hope you'll forgive my mistakes.  

for me h&t was a little disappointment. nolita fairytale (my favorite song) is certainly adorable but when i listen to the rest, i miss something... i don't know. my rating:

nolita fairytale: 10/10
hands on me: 7/10
spring street: 6/10
my best: 8/10
come undone: 7/10
the one: 6/10
heroes & thieves: 8/10
this time: 6/10
fools like me: 9/10
home: 9/10
more than this: 9.5/10

lavender skies

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« Reply #102 on: September 30, 2007, 11:58:37 am »
I really love this cd. Granted, I still have listened to the new songs, I'm waiting until the CD drops. However, I've been listening to it in my car nonstop and it really is an amazing CD. Like it's been said before, it's not fair to compare it to Harmonium (sheer genius) because this album is like a storybook.

**Ann-Marie89**

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Re: Spring Street.....and the new album
« Reply #103 on: September 30, 2007, 06:36:14 pm »
Quote from: "NoelleNC"
Quote from: "**Ann-Marie89**"
To be honest I'm not sure that this album IS Nessa's best work.. Like don't get angry at me its just my opinion, but the whole reason I loved Nessa in the first place was cause I love Classically based music, and I loved how she was so creative not just with words but rhythms and styles too. All her old stuff, especially the B-sides and many off Harmonium like Papa, were all amazing songs that were so original compared to ANYTHING else out there. She has to be the only performer who can play just her and the piano and still sound complete.
With Heroes and Thieves this isn't the case. It needs the back up vocals, the drums, the orchestral arrangements and the layers. I'm just not sure she has stuck to who she is, or whether she is sacrificing her style for the sake of commercial success? Thats not to say I think that's wrong, its all about different priorities. But If you guys listen to Other Linda Perry songs- many of Christina Aguilera's songs are written by her. You can hear the EXACT same construction techniques. Simple compositional techniques like not straying from a key, sticking to simple triad chords (major or minor) modulation, 1st-5th and 7th chord progressions etc. Very "modern" But NOT avante garde or original. Vanessa's new album is very beautiful in its honesty, and I think it will do well. But only because it's content is aimed for those with a limited musical palette. Notice how it's labelled as "Pop"?
I just feel that creatively, Vanessa showed SO much more variety of styles and ideas in her old stuff! Compare Red Ditty, Papa, A Thousand Miles, Unsung, Prince, Birdie, and Twilight. All very different from each other. But to me, The One, This Time, and Home are all very similar. Don't get me wrong I love her stuff! I just think maybe she gave up on her old stuff because people "didn't like it"
So sad.... :(

Anyway just my piece ^_^ Hopefully no one takes offense to this. 8O
And this isn't a dig! I'm just disagreeing with those who think that this is her best album..

Katherine Ann Marie



How do you know all these songs NEED the production to back them up? The only one we've heard live so far that I agree weighs heavily on production to sound complete is "Nolita Fairytale". We've heard This Time, The One, Hands On Me, Home, Heroes and Thieves and Fools Like Me live- and to be honest, with the exception of Hands On Me (imo, bc I like the studio version) I think that all the live versions DO sound complete. I especially like the live versions of Fools Like Me. And that's like half of the album. So idk what you are saying in that respect. We haven't even heard the other songs live, how can we judge?



Because that's five out of eleven songs that I think need the extras. What I'm saying is, you can listen to these songs without instruments, and they sound OK, but take a song like Papa- if that had any other instruments it would be tacky and ruin in. Im not saying they're bad without the extras, Im just saying that unlike her previous work, the extra instruments enhance the songs. And yes we can judge! because the style of all her songs on this album is exactly the same! If you play all her stuff, you'll know this. She never used to include the vocal melody in the piano, but now she does. All the new songs stick to a very regimented chord progression and don't stray very much at all. Yes there is some modulation but apart from that.... There is now in all her new stuff, a definite separation between the right hand piano line and the left. Previously, everything moved as one.

And in regards to Linda Perry- listen to Christina Aguilera's song "Beautiful"  "The Voice Within" and even "Hurt" they all have exactly the same rhythm and musical style (composition wise) that "The one" and "This Time" have! you know how its like one note and then the bottom two of the triad or whatever. that sort of constant rhythm. I cant explain it but if you compare them you will know what I mean. Vanessa never used to do that in ANY of her songs! The left hand was usually simple and the right was usually a Second melody to what she sang, so her old stuff you could say was polyphonic, and now its just homophonic.. with the main melody of her voice, mostly imitated by the piano in the right hand, with the bass in the left. Don't get me wrong, Fools Like me is an Awesome song and its probably the most different to the other ones, its just what I've noticed as a stylistic change in her music.

Peace everyone :) lol I don't mean to offend!
**Ann-Marie like a mirror of what you wanna be**

*Tutorials* and Nessa Song Demonstrations of Accurate Transcriptions from Me, Myself and I, as well as Pianobea, Blueglove and Maag (mentioned on each song where applicable) on Youtube! Yay!! (Go See! ^_^)

http://www.youtube.com/NZannmarie89

Jophess

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« Reply #104 on: September 30, 2007, 06:52:30 pm »
I don't think we should be comparing HaT to BnN or Harmonium yet. Whether we want to admit it or not, this is all knee-jerk reaction stuff. When Harmonium came out, I remember a lot of people thinking it wasn't nearly as good as BnN, not it seems to be the favorite of most of the Holics, I think we should let time decide.
Joe