Author Topic: Gay and Christian, need some help.  (Read 19364 times)

ReSpektDaFrenziedEVanesSa

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Gay and Christian, need some help.
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2008, 04:26:15 pm »
Quote from: "MeganJane"
Quote from: "ReSpektDaFrenziedEVanesSa"
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
Now here's the part where you have to be careful:  Receiving this unlimited forgiveness is not a license to continue to live in sin.  It is the vindication from sin, and if you are forgiven you no longer have to live in sin.  But no one is expected to be perfect, and if a forgiven Christian continues to sin, it shall be forgiven.  God knows us and loves us, and no one who has been forgiven shall ever be in danger of hellfire, but that doesn't mean we no longer have to pray and ask forgiveness once forgiven.  We should continue to pray and have a relationship with God, because while we won't go to hell after our death, we can certainly live in hell on Earth by separating ourselves from God.


Thank you for that, it certainly helps. But it would seem that what you are saying is that it is impossible to go to hell, and that doesn't make sense. How do I accept Jesus, how do I get forgiveness for my sins, and how will I know that I am saved?


I think he means that Christians can't go to hell but non-Christians do go to hell. I understand what he said but sometimes its helpful to hear it said in another way. (Or I may make no sense to you, lol. I'm explaining this belief, and trying to keep my own personal opinions out of it.). The reason Christians don't go to hell even if they keep on sinning (they all do, it's pretty much impossible not to seeing as they are human) is because at the point of their salvation- the point at which they become "Born Again" (Jesus talks of this in the Bible; other terminology I've heard commonly used is "letting Jesus into your heart", or "getting saved", neither of which is mentioned in the Bible... another one is "becoming a new creation in Christ", which is sourced from the Bible) then your sins are forgiven completely, which means you get the proverbial "ticket to Heaven", and even when you sin again, your ticket is not forfeited. If you truly love God though, you're not going to want to keep on sinning just because you've got your ticket. You're going to want to please Him by trying your best to follow Jesus' example, which means turning away from sin. No-one's perfect though, so when you slip up you will be sorry for displeasing God and you will pray for forgiveness. If however, you don't love God, then how can you be "saved" in the first place?  God knows your thoughts and your heart, so if you pray and don't mean it, then its not valid and you're not "saved". For example, it's generally accepted that if you are a Christian, and you go and get hit by a bus and die after you've just committed a sin and haven't prayed for forgiveness yet, then you'll still go to Heaven.
You will know that you are "saved" if you sincerely believe the Gospel (if anyone needs clarification on what this means I am happy to explain it to you, just ask) and love and accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour. This involves developing a relationship with Him through prayer.


Wow, that really sounds too good to be true, but I'll definitely give it a try. I'm afraid I don't completely understand what you mean by sincerely believe the Gospel, because it sounds like you mean that I only have to really, truly believe it, which, for me, seems too easy to be the only thing I have to do to be saved, but maybe I'm just not confident. I don't know. But anyway lol, if you could explain what you mean, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thank you sooooooooooooooo much for your help, MeganJane, your two replies have been immeasurably comforting.

Peace.

davidjp

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« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2008, 01:54:18 pm »
My dad's a catholic and he often goes to reconciliation. So my question is does one have to to go to reconciliation to have their sins forgiven?
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SadAsBlue

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« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2008, 08:31:55 am »
Quote from: "davidjp"
My dad's a catholic and he often goes to reconciliation. So my question is does one have to to go to reconciliation to have their sins forgiven?


It's not a matter of having God forgive you of your sins. He forgives them in his own way. But by repenting we ask the church to forgive us for our sins.

It's kinda like how a mom gets mad if her little kid pushes thier best friend down and even when they apologize to thier mother the mom still makes them say sorry to thier friend.

......Or at least that was the impression I was always under.
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zurielshimon

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« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2008, 08:21:12 pm »
The Bible makes no requirement of going to a church or a priest to ask for forgiveness.  Pray at home in the privacy of your bedroom and you are just as forgiven.  The Bible makes it clear that all believers in Christ have a direct line to God.
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MeganJane

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« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2008, 05:12:12 pm »
Quote from: "ReSpektDaFrenziedEVanesSa"
Quote from: "MeganJane"
Quote from: "ReSpektDaFrenziedEVanesSa"
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
Now here's the part where you have to be careful:  Receiving this unlimited forgiveness is not a license to continue to live in sin.  It is the vindication from sin, and if you are forgiven you no longer have to live in sin.  But no one is expected to be perfect, and if a forgiven Christian continues to sin, it shall be forgiven.  God knows us and loves us, and no one who has been forgiven shall ever be in danger of hellfire, but that doesn't mean we no longer have to pray and ask forgiveness once forgiven.  We should continue to pray and have a relationship with God, because while we won't go to hell after our death, we can certainly live in hell on Earth by separating ourselves from God.


Thank you for that, it certainly helps. But it would seem that what you are saying is that it is impossible to go to hell, and that doesn't make sense. How do I accept Jesus, how do I get forgiveness for my sins, and how will I know that I am saved?


I think he means that Christians can't go to hell but non-Christians do go to hell. I understand what he said but sometimes its helpful to hear it said in another way. (Or I may make no sense to you, lol. I'm explaining this belief, and trying to keep my own personal opinions out of it.). The reason Christians don't go to hell even if they keep on sinning (they all do, it's pretty much impossible not to seeing as they are human) is because at the point of their salvation- the point at which they become "Born Again" (Jesus talks of this in the Bible; other terminology I've heard commonly used is "letting Jesus into your heart", or "getting saved", neither of which is mentioned in the Bible... another one is "becoming a new creation in Christ", which is sourced from the Bible) then your sins are forgiven completely, which means you get the proverbial "ticket to Heaven", and even when you sin again, your ticket is not forfeited. If you truly love God though, you're not going to want to keep on sinning just because you've got your ticket. You're going to want to please Him by trying your best to follow Jesus' example, which means turning away from sin. No-one's perfect though, so when you slip up you will be sorry for displeasing God and you will pray for forgiveness. If however, you don't love God, then how can you be "saved" in the first place?  God knows your thoughts and your heart, so if you pray and don't mean it, then its not valid and you're not "saved". For example, it's generally accepted that if you are a Christian, and you go and get hit by a bus and die after you've just committed a sin and haven't prayed for forgiveness yet, then you'll still go to Heaven.
You will know that you are "saved" if you sincerely believe the Gospel (if anyone needs clarification on what this means I am happy to explain it to you, just ask) and love and accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour. This involves developing a relationship with Him through prayer.


Wow, that really sounds too good to be true, but I'll definitely give it a try. I'm afraid I don't completely understand what you mean by sincerely believe the Gospel, because it sounds like you mean that I only have to really, truly believe it, which, for me, seems too easy to be the only thing I have to do to be saved, but maybe I'm just not confident. I don't know. But anyway lol, if you could explain what you mean, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thank you sooooooooooooooo much for your help, MeganJane, your two replies have been immeasurably comforting.

Peace.


Hi, I'm so gald that I could be of help.
Believing is really all you have to do do to be "saved" and begin your journey with God. It's simple, but it is also a difficult concept to grasp. You can think of it like a gift, it's there with your name on it, but you have to choose whether you will accept it or not. It's hard because if a stranger offered you a gift, maybe money to fix your car when you were stuck and broke, then you would be taken aback and reluctant to accept their generosity- even though you need it you might refuse it becuase you don't feel like you deserve such a gift.

The Gospel is the account of Jesus' life here on Earth- the "Good News". There are four accounts included in the Bible- Matthew, Mark, Luke and John (named after their authors, who were disciples (followers and friends) of Jesus. In John 3:16-17, John explains it this way:
"This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be destroyed; by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life. God didn't go to all the trouble of sending his Son merely to point an accusing finger, telling the world how bad it was. He came to help, to put the world right again." ("The Message" translation)

I'll try and put it in a nutshell (I'm not good at this, so I'm pretty sure it's too detailed. What I've tried to do is explain some "backstory" so that the Gospel makes more sense), but please find out more for yourself too, so you can grow.

Jesus Christ is God's Son and always was, residing in Heaven. (The title Christ is given to him because he is the Son of God.) God created the Heavens and the Earth pure, but he gave humans the gift of free will. This means that humans could think for themselves, but also gave into temptation from Satan/The Devil/Lucifer/The Evil One and chose to do things that were against what God wanted- lie, steal, murder, and the list goes on. The first people could see God, but he stopped making himself visible when they turned away from him and did things against him. Not only could they not see God anymore, but they could now die, and becuase they had seperated themselves for God in life, they were also seperated from him in death. Many people don't believe in God because they can't see him, and they have the free will to decide for themselves whether they believe or not. The world (over two thousand years ago) was in a mess, so God sent his Son (who was also God... it's hard to explain) to earth to be visible to people once more. He came to earth as a human. Fully human and fully God at the same time. He was born to Mary as a baby, and at the time she had nowhere to give birth except for in an animal stable. (This shows how God really came down to be with us, by making him a helpless and vulnerable child in a smelly place full of animal shit, rather than putting him in a palace like you would expect.)
As he grew up, he became aware of who he was.  (There was a prophecy that God would send a Messiah- someone to save the people, but people had different ideas as to how this would happen and what it meant.) He was still very close with his Father (God). He was about 30 when he started his minstry (that's the age that boys were considered to become men in that culture), before that he was a carpenter. Apart from being the Son of God and sinless, he was an ordinary guy. He wasn't rich or handsome (no flowing blonde locks!), no-one "special" by the world's standards. He was fully human, so he had the ability to do wrong, and he was tempted by Satan, but he did not give in because of his love for his Father, and his love for people- if he had sinned, the whole plan would be ruined- I'll get to that soon. He travelled around and spoke to his friends and crowds of people about God, preaching and performing miracles. He claimed to be the Son of God, which made some people in positions of power really pissed off... It got to the point where Jesus was arrested, and then he was killed slowly and painfully. He was crucified, which means he was nailed thought his wrists and feet to a wooden cross. I won't go into too much detail here (I encourage you to find out about it for yourself), but the cruelty was astonishing. In those times and that culture, they regularly did this to criminals, but becuase they hated Jesus so much, they tortured him even more. They mocked him, and dug a crown made of thorns into his skull. People watched this bloodbath, many of whom thought he deserved it. As you can imagine, his friends, family and believers were devastated. This was their king, their friend, the one who had come to save them, and now he was killed like a piece of meat. How could he save them when he was dead? Their God was dead. Jesus paid for their sins by taking them on himself.... but he was dead.
The way that people were forgiven in the days before this was to offer a sacrifice to God. A perfect lamb had to be slaughtered. It is written that "without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness". So what God had done, is offered his Son, who was like the perfect lamb as a blood sacrifice to pay for the sins of the people to make forgiveness free. This is why, three days after his death, Jesus' tomb was found empty! His body was gone. He appeared again, alive. He had been raised from the dead! People thought they had seen a ghost, but they found he was very much alive. He had beaten death and sin. Not just a physical death, but spiritual. Spiritual death is a seeration from God. He was seperated from his Father because of the sin he had taken on, but as the sin was forgiven thorough the sacrifice, he was resurrected. The time came when Jesus returned to his Father in Heaven. He ascended- literally rose up into the sky and disappeared. He was once again invisible, but believing is a matter of faith, and believing in what you can't see. All you have to do is believe in, and love him- this is accepting him as your Lord and your Saviour. This means accepting him not just as the Saviour of the world, but of YOU, personally. If you believe in and love him, you will want to please him, and get to know him personally- have a relationship with him. Your life will not be easy- but what he offers is not an easy life, but a whole one, one in which your spirit will live on with him.

I really hope this has answered your question. xo

P.S. It's taken me an hour to write this, so it's not proof-read, lol.
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ReSpektDaFrenziedEVanesSa

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« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2008, 07:43:43 pm »
Wow thank you sooooooooooooooooooooooo much. You've definitely helped me, and I literally owe you (among other people) my very life. I will continue to find out more for myself so that I can grow and become closer to Jesus and God. If anyone has anything to add to my original question, please feel free, all answers are appreciated. Thanks again, MJ.

P.S.: For written in an hour w/ minimal proof-reading, that came out very well. :)

MeganJane

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« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2008, 10:58:21 pm »
Quote from: "ReSpektDaFrenziedEVanesSa"
Wow thank you sooooooooooooooooooooooo much. You've definitely helped me, and I literally owe you (among other people) my very life. I will continue to find out more for myself so that I can grow and become closer to Jesus and God. If anyone has anything to add to my original question, please feel free, all answers are appreciated. Thanks again, MJ.

P.S.: For written in an hour w/ minimal proof-reading, that came out very well. :)


Thanks. It means a lot to me that I can help. I came across a website that you may be interested in visiting. It's www.christiangays.com and though I haven't had a good look at it, it seems like a really friendly and informative resource. You can read about other Christians who are gay and know what you are going thorough. There are lots of articles, Bible study tools and downloadable e-books. It might help you to find a gay-friendly church. I'm actually looking at it now and I'm enjoying it despite being straight, lol  :)
I'm sure there would be other similar sites out there too, so have a look around. (Just be careful, there are some weird "Christian" sites out there, including one dedicated to telling people why they shouldn't listen the band P.O.D., one of their reasons being that the singer once had dreadlocks, which means he can't be a Christian :roll:  :lol: )
"Music produces a kind of pleasure that human nature cannot do without."
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"It is hard. You have to fight for who you are everyday" -VANESSA CARLTON

MeganJane

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« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2008, 11:06:27 pm »
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
The Bible makes no requirement of going to a church or a priest to ask for forgiveness.  Pray at home in the privacy of your bedroom and you are just as forgiven.  The Bible makes it clear that all believers in Christ have a direct line to God.


True. We don't need a mediator between us and God. In Confession, the priest acts as a mediator- like a "middle man" who issues the forgiveness on God's behalf. So it's not a requirement to go to a priest, as you can pray directly to God wherever you are, and he will forgive you (which requires NO "hail mary's!") If one finds it helpful to talk it over with a priest though, that's a good thing too.  :)
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Morgan

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« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2008, 09:41:25 am »
I am sure a lot of people have cleared this all up for you, but there are many, many people in the same position as you.
To me, it's no different from a bisexual or a straight person being a Christian.
That's what she said.

SadAsBlue

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« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2008, 06:36:24 pm »
Quote from: "zurielshimon"
The Bible makes no requirement of going to a church or a priest to ask for forgiveness.  Pray at home in the privacy of your bedroom and you are just as forgiven.  The Bible makes it clear that all believers in Christ have a direct line to God.


Oh I agree God will forgive regaurdless , this is just what I was told once when I was younger. However confession has always given me a cleansing feeling.
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« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2008, 10:26:43 pm »
Don't worry whats going to happen to you so much, you're not going to go to hell lol

However, there is some good people who will not go to heaven and theres some bad people who wont go to hell..its all apart of God's plan and his reasons...you just never know...remember satan believes in God too... :?

But you should have a lot of faith in God and try to have a personal relationship with him. Pray everyday and keep him close to your heart. Thats really important...He is always there listening. you will see your lifestyle changing and everything will start to make sense to you and you will start to feel good about yourself. Asking others whether its wrong or not will just cause you a lot of fear and confusion that will drive you nuts.  :)

Why are you asking people that anyway?...That should just be between you and God...:mrgreen:

in_white_houses

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« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2008, 09:17:57 pm »
I am a Catholic and i dont think God will condemn you for something you can't help. Just be a good person and you can go to heaven.
And by the way, not totally sure but I think I might be bi.
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« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2008, 02:10:20 am »
Adding to what Will mentioned about the Bible being slightly outdated... well, I can say with relative certainty two things: first, the Bible was written in a time in homosexuality was considered a (more) dangerous practice due to its connotations of disease. The same goes for various other ridiculous-sounding things in the Bible, such as the instruction not to eat shellfish or mollusks. These things were frowned upon because they were not well known and they were indeed dangerous. It's safe to assume that people of this time were frightened of things of the sort because, say, when they were involved with them, they would come down with diseases they did not recognize or know of. One would imagine that if they had no idea why they got this disease, they would attempt to blame it on the act itself, saying that God thought the act was detestable.

Second, I would like to point out again that the Bible was not written by God himself, and that it has been warped and torn to pieces (in both a figurative and literal sense) since it was introduced. I think it would be foolish to take everything it says as law when it could have been so easily warped by special interests and things of that sort across the ages.

Well, me, I'm an atheist, and gay, and I have only read select portions of the Bible. So I'm biased. But, that's my two cents, so whatever. Hope it helped some.
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« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2008, 08:05:45 pm »
Hai guys whats going on in this thread?
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« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2008, 10:53:37 am »
Quote from: "Ryou-Neko"
Adding to what Will mentioned about the Bible being slightly outdated... well, I can say with relative certainty two things: first, the Bible was written in a time in homosexuality was considered a (more) dangerous practice due to its connotations of disease. The same goes for various other ridiculous-sounding things in the Bible, such as the instruction not to eat shellfish or mollusks. These things were frowned upon because they were not well known and they were indeed dangerous. It's safe to assume that people of this time were frightened of things of the sort because, say, when they were involved with them, they would come down with diseases they did not recognize or know of. One would imagine that if they had no idea why they got this disease, they would attempt to blame it on the act itself, saying that God thought the act was detestable.

Second, I would like to point out again that the Bible was not written by God himself, and that it has been warped and torn to pieces (in both a figurative and literal sense) since it was introduced. I think it would be foolish to take everything it says as law when it could have been so easily warped by special interests and things of that sort across the ages.

Well, me, I'm an atheist, and gay, and I have only read select portions of the Bible. So I'm biased. But, that's my two cents, so whatever. Hope it helped some.


Wow, that's a dangerous point of view.  If that's truly how you believe, how do you leave the house?
Dustin