I am sad that Vanessa ended up getting kicked out of the show with a reputation fell like a rock. Hope you were just being sarcastic when you say I think "Disney is the best place a musician can end up". If you think that was what I meant, recommend reading my post again.
No need to be sad and her reputation is not going to suffer.
This is my opinion, but saying image can be careless is bullsh**. The image is the first thing that slaps you in the face thus giving what quality can you expect from an artist. It totally reflects the artist as a whole and her bodies of works. I do not have a single problem with Vanessa's cursing. But everyone, well obviously except for some nessaholics, finds it disturbing that she cursed even after the warning from Disney. so what kind of real image do you think VC is? A girl who walks around cursing whenever she feels like it? Hell yes everyone does that. But being a musician, a real musician, aren't you, in your fans' view, a role model- an artist with such strong conscience and morals whose songs and musics help you through your hard times? Im taking a risk here but I can say that no one will ever get VC's music if she says "fck" in ATM in the first place. If VC really is someone who is independent and withstanding, and cursing is her nature and we all support "freedom of speech", then why didnt she say the word in the first place?
I am going to say that 'everyone found it disturbing' is just not true in that most people most likely do not even know this happened or would care. Image in the way you are discussing it, more as in reputation, and image the way I was discussing it, total manufactured and fake concept in hope it will resonate and sell more, are not the same exact thing.
I am pretty sure her reputation is in tact and if anything cussing at Disney could in no way hurt sales, it is not like people will stop buying Nessa CDs because now she is a negative influence on children, she does not make children's music for that to happen, she is not Hannah Montana.
Ive never seen her live but from what I have been following, she cursed lately in small shows (as her career is going down, ok, in terms of sales). You may argue that when she curses+small shows=> the real Vanessa Carlton, the real music, the real image, real quality... I don't buy that. Like many people state above, she probably tries to make the show intimate and personal, which Im 100% support, but I think she's losing control and becoming rebellious as a result of stress from the disappointment after H&T. She poured her souls and tears into it and yet it wasnt well received.
I am not going to guess about her stress or disappointment and her lack of sales has nothing to do whatsoever with the quality of her music. Good sales is really equal to good marketing and distribution which is something that the labels control. If they have five albums to put out they are going to spend most of their money advertising one of them, the one they think will bring them the most money back, it will be the album that has elements that appeal to the lowest common denominator of persons, it will also target the main audience they are trying to capture, and whatever it is most likely will be top ten rubbish that is out as soon as it is in.
The fact that this is the type of audience we are dealing with, one who wants fast music, one wants the latest hit, and who listens to commercials and other advertisements to decide what is good music now and what they should be doing to fit in with the rest of the world, in other words it is a market of sheeple who are a marketers dream.
This is not the type of audience Vanessa is going for and that has been clear since her earliest interviews. She is not trying to aim for top ten hit music.
I agree about the Grammy and MTV being garbage these days. But im not sure about going indie. Fans have long saying they are fine with her going indie. i feel a doubt. She once sold millions, had great video, performing live in famous places. Do you think she will be able to do all that when she goes indie? (im sorry i have no idea what indie artists are like?) I mean what is the fun when she releases a CD and that's it? She may perform here and there, back in the clubs and street venues stuff like that but no official video on youtube, on TV, no video, no performing in TV show? Charlotte Martin was super when she was trying mainstream. and she just released a CD I have no idea. and nothing else. all silence. same with Sugar Ray.
I dont know about you but I love seeing Vanessa doing stuffs. I cant just stare at the CD (even if she is able to release physically). and Im from Vietnam, Im not even in the States and the only way I can feel her is to see her. Is that possible if you go indie? or do you want cut all the fans to get her to yourself?
Again this is about a business decision in who labels want to market and in turn that means their other acts suffer including Vanessa when she first tried them. Also indie is not as obscure as that anymore. There are videos, quality produced ones, on Youtube of many indie acts, as well as live shows, which can be more quality in some cases than what is recorded as the studio version, there are a few clips of Vanessa live as well in these intimate venues that you seem to equate with failure.
Sometimes I am pissed at fans who just want Vanessa for themselves. "OMG I wish we could stay like this forever, just us a little group and Vanessa. we know everything about Vanessa, her rare songs and laugh at people face when they wonder why Ordinary Day's live was different". I really dont know what to start on this. It's great that we have a group, but wanting Vanessa to go totally off mainstream so only us know her music => somehow makes it the best music in the world. better than anything else. especially compared to mainstream songs. and we are the best people, best fans for having the best music and artist...
It is not so much as that as most true fans knowing that in order for Vanessa to sell millions and have these magnificently large shows that it means she is part of the mainstream racket where she is controlled by the label, that would mean they would advertise someone else's album over hers, all her concerts and such would be under their mercy, which means she might never have any because they do not have the time, effort, or money to book them since they are focusing on other acts, in turn she cannot even choose to play where she wants for breach of contract, look I might be all wrong about the specifics but it would strip her of her soul, and I doubt she would still make songs or do shows as the one on Youtube where she sings London, which just listening made me cry cause it made me reflect on myself, when is the last time a mainstream artist made me cry listening to a low-quality video recording of their live show on a song that is not even released by them? Never....cause the label would not allow it to begin with and mainstream music just does not touch my soul.
omfg i hate it so much when people say that. I am so sorry your.dying.wish, but declaring such a fake fact: "Indie music is the best music" is such nonsense. I know it is all opinions, but to make your opinions valid you have to have proof and evidence. Alanis Morissette and Jewel and Garbage and Michelle Branch are still making music. and it is debatable whether any of them is good (depends on your taste), but they are still making great music, and I can say that because they produce/play and write heartfelt lyrics. and they are efffing MAINSTREAM. I am upset at your bringing Beyonce up. I have never like her as a idol but she writes her freaking songs and dances her ass off and sings her heart out and seriously, paying to her is one of the worthiest entertainment thing you could get (please dont tell me music is not entertainment) because the woman is passionate and does everything the best she can.
Indie is nice, go listen to groups like Au Revoir Simone, Lykke Li, Peter, Bjorn, and John, Santigold, Metric, Feist or even less known groups like We See Lights, Laura Veirs, or Sunset Rubdown, all who get play on the all night indie show, at least here on one of the local university radio stations.
Opinions indeed.
and btw Vanessa has been writing her songs since the first album so in case you didnt know that you would only say this :"Whoever is saying her career is rock bottom and Afterglow is her golden age has yet to hear her last album or is unaware she is producing most of the tracks on her new one" again, opinions here, whichever era you want to choose as her golden age
It is much too soon in her career to speak of golden ages but it will never he her first studio album, it will never be ATM video, or a large venue concert, that is not how Nessa will be defined, but I can understand for those who are just into mainstream music, whose only exposure to Nessa was the ATM video, for them to think so, sadly they have not discovered the true Vanessa, but it is not sad in that oh poor Vanessa she is not going to be noticed by the top ten radio, no it is more sad in that many people have such a limited view of music and much less exposure to quality music which truly makes our world a more beautiful place...but top ten can be fun too for a bit I just doubt I will listen to the same stuff on the radio now in ten years, but Vanessa I will.
