Kerry concedes, Bush still President.

[BWilli]

Cite your source.  Different sites have different counts, but none of them are anywhere NEAR 100,000

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/- 14000-16000

http://www.mykeru.com/bodycount.html - >8000

http://news.amnesty.org/mav/index/ENGMDE140052004 - ~10000

Those only count civilians.  Not soldiers.

And even including soldiers, it's NOWHERE NEAR 100,000.

Article disproving 100,000 death theory: here

Why does the number make a difference Tricia? Thousands have still been killed regardless- women and children who were not guilty of any crime.

it's a damn shame rosie, no doubt, but look at that number compared to the number of people Sadam has killed...innocent people...now that Hussain is gone, think of the number of people that have been saved from him...

[Grakthis]

Try looking up Deuteronomy 2:33 thru 3:7.

Valid.  Though, that was mostly a war... but there is def the sections on killing the women and children as well.  I don't know if I would call it genocide because it's not so much a "race" being destroyed as it is several nations, but I see how that might be argued.

That assumes a singular morality.

tylor

Right.  And since we are talking about MURDER in the context of a WESTERN RELIGIOS text, then I think you HAVE to use the western religious morality to judge it.  Not to mention that we are talking about something that was said by a Christian.  What other definition of "murder" would limey be using OTHER than the Christian definition he is familiar with?

[tricia]

I never said any civilian deaths were acceptable.  EVER.  My heart breaks for those people who have lost loved ones.  I'm not one who can stand in the street and cheer when people are killed, even if I dislike their country.  Though many did just that when America was attacked, but I digress.

But I am so sick and tired of hearing people complain about Bush lying all the time and then continuing to perpetuate another lie.

I'm a stickler for accuracies, and I'm sorry, but there is a HUGE difference between 10,000 and 100,000 people no matter how you slice it.

As I said before, LOSS OF CIVILIAN LIFE IS TERRIBLE EITHER WAY, but there is a big difference between 10,000 and 100,000.

[tricia]

And just because Brian brought it up, I read one estimate that Saddam and his actions directly caused the deaths of approximately 2,000,000 civilians.

[BWilli]

And just because Brian brought it up, I read one estimate that Saddam and his actions directly caused the deaths of approximately 2,000,000 civilians.

i didn't want to post a number, because I wasn't sure...but damn.

[tricia]

And just because Brian brought it up, I read one estimate that Saddam and his actions directly caused the deaths of approximately 2,000,000 civilians.

i didn't want to post a number, because I wasn't sure...but damn.

yeah, I understand.  The data is out there though, and pretty easy to find.  

Last night I read one article detailing the acts of tortue performed by Uday, and how many athletes who lost early and caused "embarrassment" to Iraq suddenly just "disappeared".

[BWilli]

And just because Brian brought it up, I read one estimate that Saddam and his actions directly caused the deaths of approximately 2,000,000 civilians.

i didn't want to post a number, because I wasn't sure...but damn.

yeah, I understand.  The data is out there though, and pretty easy to find.  

Last night I read one article detailing the acts of tortue performed by Uday, and how many athletes who lost early and caused "embarrassment" to Iraq suddenly just "disappeared".

these guys were some crazy mofo's.  sick sick bastads

[Grakthis]

And just because Brian brought it up, I read one estimate that Saddam and his actions directly caused the deaths of approximately 2,000,000 civilians.

i didn't want to post a number, because I wasn't sure...but damn.

But keep in mind 2 things.

1) that's historic, not projected lives that will be saved.  What that number tells us is "here's the number of lives you COULD have saved if you'd done this 10 years ago."

and 2) We have no evidence that the number of people who die in Iraq will be DECREASED with Sadam gone.  THere are still plenty of warlords running around.

[Dora]

wow, you guys are strong about your politics...

I'm canadian btw, but this affects me too!  I hate Bush with passion, he's the devil LOL.  I was really sad when he won...I wish people weren't so blind  :cry:   These people have a way of manipulating and lying and it's horrific.

[BWilli]

But keep in mind 2 things.

1) that's historic, not projected lives that will be saved.  What that number tells us is "here's the number of lives you COULD have saved if you'd done this 10 years ago."

and 2) We have no evidence that the number of people who die in Iraq will be DECREASED with Sadam gone.  THere are still plenty of warlords running around.

Bush Sr. tried and failed to catch Saddam 14 years ago.  Did Clinton go into Iraq 10 years ago?  I can't remember to be honest, but if he did, he failed as well.  Sure it took us a damn long time to get rid of the guy, but we finally did, and I for one, think the Iraqi civilians are a lot safer now.

[Dora]

OK, and who cares about Iraq's business?  Americans don't control the world, they dont even understand eastern society  :roll:   Let the iraqis decide whats best for them....

[BWilli]

OK, and who cares about Iraq's business?  Americans don't control the world, they dont even understand eastern society  :roll:   Let the iraqis decide whats best for them....

How could the Iraqi people decide whats best for them when Saddam was in power?

[Dora]

OK, and who cares about Iraq's business?  Americans don't control the world, they dont even understand eastern society  :roll:   Let the iraqis decide whats best for them....

How could the Iraqi people decide whats best for them when Saddam was in power?

They could have tried to fight back...it does happen.  And to be honest, I'm not ready to believe everything I hear.  The media is full of crap.

[Dora]

However though, the americans were still wrong in sticking around AFTER they caught sadam, its like, ok, he's gone, now YOU  decide that you want

[BWilli]

OK, and who cares about Iraq's business?  Americans don't control the world, they dont even understand eastern society  :roll:   Let the iraqis decide whats best for them....

How could the Iraqi people decide whats best for them when Saddam was in power?

They could have tried to fight back...it does happen.  And to be honest, I'm not ready to believe everything I hear.  The media is full of crap.

Saddam had been killing his people for years...you don't think they tried to fight back?  Come on...