Kerry concedes, Bush still President.

[Dora]

OK, and who cares about Iraq's business?  Americans don't control the world, they dont even understand eastern society  :roll:   Let the iraqis decide whats best for them....

How could the Iraqi people decide whats best for them when Saddam was in power?

They could have tried to fight back...it does happen.  And to be honest, I'm not ready to believe everything I hear.  The media is full of crap.

Saddam had been killing his people for years...you don't think they tried to fight back?  Come on...

it doesn't matter anyway, they continued to bully them around after they caught him.

[kev222]

OK, and who cares about Iraq's business?  Americans don't control the world, they dont even understand eastern society  :roll:   Let the iraqis decide whats best for them....

The funny thing about your statement is that the Iraqi population was not in a position to decide anything for themselves until the coalition interfered with Iraq's business.

However though, the americans were still wrong in sticking around AFTER they caught sadam, its like, ok, he's gone, now YOU decide that you want

Have you thought that through? Do you honestly think that, in a power vacuum, everything would just miraculously work out in the best interests of the Iraqi people?

-Kev

[Dora]

I don't care, whatever happened, I think it's wrong!

[BWilli]

it doesn't matter anyway, they continued to bully them around after they caught him.

our troops are there to help.  shit ain't perfect there, and it's going to take a good gad damn long time until it does, but atleast Saddam isn't killing millions of more people.

[PIBby]

There's no point in trying to help; this is America, not the middle-east, not Iraq, not Afghanistan, and certainly not Vietnam.

Bush (or whoever you consider in control and at fault with this) needs to worry about his people and his country first. Without us, he's nothing and in deep shit without millions of Americans supporting him.

Even after he is finished, worrying about us, there's no point in "helping" other nations; in what ways have we helped Iraq? There have been numerous casualties and soldiers killed in the process of trying to imprison Hussein, who - while in power - killed, probably, fewer people than have died in the past two years over seas. How is this helping anyone: the soldiers' families, Iraq and its people, the soldiers and civilians themselves? Answer that validly and you get a cookie.

(Good luck!)

It's said to be helping America as a whole - you know, the oil thing. That should help our economy - the same economy which was totally fucked when You Know Who was elected in office four years ago. Everything is so contrary or cancels something out. Instead of going to war over oil to help the economy, just avoid it all totally and DON'T elect a dumbass who WILL lower the economy - subtly if not noticeably. Instead of giving yourself a papercut and robbing a store to get band-aids, avoid it all together and don't use paper. It's simple; we're just a very retarded and illogical country. That's why I'm moving to France.

So . . . the thirty-five-year-old question remains: What are we doing over there?

Blame yourself - and if you didn't vote for Bush . . . impeach.

[BWilli]

There have been numerous casualties and soldiers killed in the process of trying to imprison Hussein, who - while in power - killed, probably, fewer people than have died in the past two years over seas. How is this helping anyone: the soldiers' families, Iraq and its people, the soldiers and civilians themselves? Answer that validly and you get a cookie.

(Good luck!)

It was stated earlier in this thread by Tricia, that Hussain has killed 2,000,000 civilian Iraqis.  Andrew stated that this was over a period of time (10 or more years).

Okay.  Do the math.  

2,000,000 people dived by 10 years = 200,000 people killed a year (on average) by Hussain.

What's the total since we've been there?  Tricia also stated that the claim of 100,000 Iraqi civilian lives was untrue to this point.  So the death toll is well below 200,000.

[LimeTwister]

Actually, Saddam gained power in 1979.  That would mean more than 10 years.  (and read the Andrew's post again, he never said those murders happened over 10 years, he said they should have been stopped 10 years ago.)

Saddam was evil, I never said he wasn't.  That doesn't give America the right to attack countries.  Another problem, we did not use diplomatic means.  We LIED to the UN.  Then, we ignored the UN.  We told a leader of a country that he had 48 hours to leave his country...HIS country.  That's like some other country telling you to leave.  LEAVE!  Saddam thought he was the best country in the world. So, of course he wasn't going to leave.

Also, I posted an article that concluded the number 100,000 is still possible.  That same article was written after the Slate magazine (which on the same site it said "Why do Americans hate Democrats"...woo, that was what I wanted to see.).  I understand it's just guessing--no one will ever know how many people really have died since Marth 19, 2003.  But throwing 100,000 to the side saying it's wrong isn't correct either.

I know some may not believe this--I approved of the war in Afghanistan.  That's when we were going after the person that attacked us on 9-11-01.  Saddam was not involved with 9-11.  Yet, we were told this in 2002.

[BWilli]

Actually, Saddam gained power in 1979.  That would mean more than 10 years.  (and read the Andrew's post again, he never said those murders happened over 10 years, he said they should have been stopped 10 years ago.)

Also, I posted an article that concluded the number 100,000 is still possible.  That same article was written after the Slate magazine (which on the same site it said "Why do Americans hate Democrats"...woo, that was what I wanted to see.).  I understand it's just guessing--no one will ever know how many people really have died since Marth 19, 2003.  But throwing 100,000 to the side saying it's wrong isn't correct either.

I know some may not believe this--I approved of the war in Afghanistan.  That's when we were going after the person that attacked us on 9-11-01.  Saddam was not involved with 9-11.  Yet, we were told this in 2002.

I mis-read andrews post.  sorry about that.

ok.  then the average would be 80,000 a year. that is if he started killing people as soon as he came into power.  I still think the death toll is less than that.  

don't get me wrong either though...i think it sucks mad cow balls that people are dying, however, i think Iraq will eventually become a safer place for it's people, now that hussain is outta there

also, we are still lookin' for Bin Laden. it seems like poeple think we've forgotten about him, but we haven't.  We'll catch his skinny ass.

[LimeTwister]

I didn't say we* weren't...but we haven't found him...

Q: Why haven't we found Osama, yet?

Bush's A: Because he's hiding

*changed were to we.

[BWilli]

I didn't say were weren't...but we haven't found him...

Q: Why haven't we found Osama, yet?

Bush's A: Because he's hiding

i didn't mean you specifically...

Saddam was hiding too...and we found him.  So i think we'll find Bin Laden too.

[PIBby]

Not with all the ties!

*watches Bushes make knots with bin Laden family*

[LimeTwister]

Not with all the ties!

*watches Bushes make knots with bin Laden family*

Forgot about that!!

The bin Laden family got to fly home 9-11-01, when the normal American could not.

[jlmusicchick]

I didn't say were weren't...but we haven't found him...

Q: Why haven't we found Osama, yet?

Bush's A: Because he's hiding

i didn't mean you specifically...

Saddam was hiding too...and we found him.  So i think we'll find Bin Laden too.

Depends on how much more effort we put in to it. when my history teacher came back he said that we weren't putting as much as we could in to finding Osama, but then again that was a year ago, so things could have changed since then.

[BWilli]

Not with all the ties!

*watches Bushes make knots with bin Laden family*

Forgot about that!!

The bin Laden family got to fly home 9-11-01, when the normal American could not.

that, I can agree with you, was plain stupid.

since that, any ties that you know of that were made?  probably not, i don't know for sure.

[Grakthis]

There have been numerous casualties and soldiers killed in the process of trying to imprison Hussein, who - while in power - killed, probably, fewer people than have died in the past two years over seas. How is this helping anyone: the soldiers' families, Iraq and its people, the soldiers and civilians themselves? Answer that validly and you get a cookie.

(Good luck!)

It was stated earlier in this thread by Tricia, that Hussain has killed 2,000,000 civilian Iraqis.  Andrew stated that this was over a period of time (10 or more years).

Okay.  Do the math.  

2,000,000 people dived by 10 years = 200,000 people killed a year (on average) by Hussain.

What's the total since we've been there?  Tricia also stated that the claim of 100,000 Iraqi civilian lives was untrue to this point.  So the death toll is well below 200,000.

I just pulled 10 years out of my ass.

We should have stopped them as soon as we knew they were going on.  Whenevr that was.