Programming languages

[kev222]

I'm working on a version of breakout right now for the TI-83 Pluses we have at school. While I could use the built-in lobotomized BASIC, it is much too slow with most of the commands, especially the graphics one. anything.

Sounds like a fun project

So, I'm using my mad z80 assembler skillz (so mad, they were nonexistant before this project  :wink:) to write the program. So far, I am getting it to display my opening graphic. I still need more tech docs though. I don't know enough about the internals on the sucker to do much of anything.

Tech docs, Pffft. Open the bad boy up and have a look around. lol

-Kev

[kev222]

Out of pure interest. What is a TI-83? All I know so far is that it contains at least one Z80. lol

[kaysha]

Out of pure interest. What is a TI-83? All I know so far is that it contains at least one Z80. lol

It's a calculator by Texas Instruments.  Here in the states, all the highschool/college kids have 'em for Trig->Calc

Could prolly find some info on them at http://www.ti.com.  I actually had the TI-83 as well whereas some friends had the TI-85.  I liked the sexy sleek design on the 83

[kev222]

Thanks Katia

Cool. We have the casio equivelent over here. It had a stripped down basic interpreter in it as well It nearly ruined my A-levels because all we did was code games instead of learning. It was quite funny (well not really) because as we learnt the maths for projectiles and things in class our games got more advanced using the equations hehe. By the end of the 2 years we had worms style games (mine was called blasters) with deformable scenery and proper projectile motion with wind and gravity That was my very first programming. Good times.

The bad thing about them was that you couldn't program in assembly for them. I keep meaning to replace the mask ROM inside with a flash ROM or EPROM so that I could use the machine language, but eh... I'm too lazy :-/

You could overclock them too The older model had a 3.5 MHz resonator in it and we got a 15% speed up by replacing it with a 4 MHz. I tried 4.2, but it was too unstable The newer ones (which we got later) used 8 Mhz (presumably the Z80's in the TI-83 are 8 Mhz too?)

Okay.... I've been talking about a calculator for way too long Just a bit of a trip down memory lane, that's all

-Kev

[Will]

As far as I know, the z80 runs at 6 MHz in the TI-83. I could be wrong though.

Manuel doesn't say. Not much on the official site. SDK doesn't say much about the nitty gritty. They want me to use their own system calls and not directly access hardware. Screw them. And their signed code.....

Maybe I'm not looking hard enough.

Oh well, I'm getting an Voyage 200 soon. I belive it uses a 68k. Back at home. :-D

[kev222]

Manuel doesn't say. Not much on the official site. SDK doesn't say much about the nitty gritty.

Open it up and have a poke around that's what I did. If it's anything like the casio, the only significant ICs in there are the CPU, SRAM and ROM (exclusing the ones associated with the display, which was a simplified 12 (or so) line module in mine). You can figure out the RAM/ROM/Display pin-outs, memory address mappings and IO ports (if any) using just a multi-meter.

This is all presuming the SDK isn't restrictive in the instructions/address modes that you can use. Is it just sraight Z80 assembly?

Of course, it depends how willing you are to risk breaking the calculator. I once fried an X-Box doing similar stuff $300 down the drain. lol (although I only got it to mess around with inside )

-Kev

[Will]

Of course, it depends how willing you are to risk breaking the calculator.

That is the problem. I don't actually own a TI-83 Plus. I emulate it at home. I actually use it at school. The program I use to emulate it is open source, so I guess that I could poke around a bit and deduce a few things. Still, can't pop open the cover or anything. Oh well.

I'll figure this stuff out. I'll get my program to work, even if I have to use their dirt slow system calls.

[Grakthis]

Will, I cannot believe you just compared programming to Art.  You seriously need to get out of the house.  Please.  Go see a play.  Read a book.  Go on a date.  SOMETHING.

Yes, Kev, I agree with your basic premise.  Each language has a purpose and a use.  I certianly don't think that ASM and C are dead languages.  I think they are neccesary and they have their place.  Their place just isn't in 90% of the development that is done these days.

BTW, I completely disagree about the MS slander.  MS does things a LOT more efficiently than you guys seem to want to give them credit for.  I dont know if you've noticed, but MSSQL 2000 runs almost as fast as oracle on anything but the largest of machines and applications.

Also, Win2000 and XP are VERY robust operating systems.  Ive run Unix, ive run linux.  Im not THAT impressed with either of them.

So in summary, Kev is right, and Will is nuts.

Anyways, Jason is making me watch a video of himself in Bosnia  :wink:

Its actually pretty damn funny. hehehehehe.
---Andrew

[kev222]

Agreed.

BTW, I completely disagree about the MS slander.  MS does things a LOT more efficiently than you guys seem to want to give them credit for.  I dont know if you've noticed, but MSSQL 2000 runs almost as fast as oracle on anything but the largest of machines and applications.

Yeah, Microsoft aint so bad. They were just the first large software corp that I could think of. I'm also just bitter for reasons of personal preference. But hey. that's why Bill Gates is swimming in money and I'm flat broke. lol

Besides any company that designed that MS-office sodding paper clip "helper" deserves some critism at least.

-Kev

[Will]

Will, I cannot believe you just compared programming to Art.

I did not compare it to art. It is art. I look at a beautifully written algorithm and I marvel. Most of the good ones make a complex problem look simple. Maybe you have been programming as a job for too long if you don't see that anymore.

I program because I think it is beautiful. Not because someone pays me to. I enjoy doing it.

Programming is pure reasoning. It is beautiful.

Besides, would you say the same thing if I said I marveled at wonderfully designed cars? I know people like that. Most people don't consider it abnormal. A wonderfully designed program is the same thing to me.

You seriously need to get out of the house. Please. Go see a play. Read a book. Go on a date. SOMETHING.

Oh yeah, maybe I should tell you that I am a classically trained pianist that is fairly proficent on dozens of instruments and that I am in five projects and two school bands right now. In additon, I do audio consulting work and I am currently a voluenteer for an upstart community access television station. Now, you can tell me to get a life. :wink:

Will is nuts.

Tell me something I don't already know. :wink:

Also, Win2000 and XP are VERY robust operating systems. Ive run Unix, ive run linux. Im not THAT impressed with either of them.

Yeah, I think that they are unfairly dissed because people still have a bad taste from the Windows 9X series. But, I still think that they are dreadfully insecure. Come back when any version of a Windows server OS has had only one default remote root exploit in seven years (OpenBSD).

Honestly, I use Windows a lot. I run 2k Pro on one of my desktops. But, I just like the ability to strip down an OS to it's bare bones just for security and resource reasons. Why should a GUI, let alone a web browser always be active on a server? Do we need DirectX on a server? Yeah, they probably won't cause trouble, but simplicity is security. The less components you have, the less you have to worry about some obscure security bug that sometimes shows up in complex systems. You simply can't strip Windows down like you can with Linux or a BSD.

Yeah, Windows works. Sometimes, it works well even. But, it doesn't mean that it is an elegant solution. I'm not in buisness. I am going to use the most elegant solution because it doesn't matter how long it takes for me to get it to work.

Pretty much, Windows seems like it is the best tool for what you are doing. So continue to use it!

But as for me, practicality has little to do with my choice in software.

[kaysha]

YAY!  Three cheers for BSD!

*goes back to lurking in this thread*... Will needs a date... *nods*

[Will]

Will needs a date...

If I need one that badly, someone give me money to travel to see my girlfriend. :wink:

It's only 625 miles. :-P

[Grakthis]

I didn't see that will replied to me! Yay!

Ummm, oh yeah.  That big list of things you do.... none of that means you have a life.  Because none of those are SOCIAL activities.  Im serious man.  Im not just being mean here either..... date someone in PERSON.  Not over the internet.  Go to a party.  Hang out with people YOUR age.

And for GOD'S sake! Don't program things for FUN!

And as for the car being art thing.... a car's EXTERNAL appearance can be "art".  If someone tried to tell me that the way a car worked was art, I would laugh at them.

Then again, I believe strongly in the idea that "art" is a subjective word.  Kinda like "sport".  What is and is not a sport or what is and is not art varies from person to person.  But that doesn't mean I can't make fun of your defenition  :wink:
---Andrew

[kev222]

Im not just being mean here either..... date someone in PERSON.  Not over the internet.  Go to a party.  Hang out with people YOUR age. And for GOD'S sake! Don't program things for FUN!

Bah! I say do what you want.

-Kev

[HappyZen]

LMAO!!!
Ask a stupid question!
LOL

thanks guys this was really more than I ever imagined
totally and wwwwwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy over my head ...
in fact i'm sure some piolet (sp?) flying overhead just got a facefull of programming language info LOL

but I reallllllllly appreciate it :-)
you guys rock
I dropped the course but attend classes it's the Zena way :-)
:arrow: HAPPYZEN = biggest nerd on the forum :-)

I made my Java program roll a die!!! LOL
yay me!!!