Is it that much of an honor to be nom'ed for a Grammy?

Granted, it's cool if one can say he/she has won or been nominated for a Grammy, but it isn't exactly an exclusive club for the best of the best.

If you would have come to me before The Black Eyed Peas album came out and showed me the lyric, "my humps, my humps, my lovely lady lumps,"  8O and then told me the album where the song with these lyrics came from would receive multiple award nominations, 8O  I would have spit whatever I was drinking into your face and then suggested in a calm and polite manner that you return to the maximum security facility from which you escaped and let the nice nurses give you your realism medication.

If you would have told me that Gwen Stefani's relentlessly overrated, vile solo album with a cover from the musical Fiddler on the Roof on it (which everyone "bumps" to like it's innovative and brilliant) would get multiple Grammy nominations, I would ask you if you lived in a padded room with a roomate who was into The Black Eyed Peas.

Many of the Grammy nominations are so adolescent, they may as well have been written in crayon. :drunk:

So, if you're someone like Vanessa Carlton, would you be happy just to be nominated for a Grammy, or would you be embarassed that you are being grouped with the "clever" lady lump people, and the woman who keeps spelling the word  :dances: bananas :dances:  over and over again and calls it a song? :?:

(I know they wouldn't necessarily be in the same category, but you get my point)

[amberbeads]

I love you.
And I agree.

[PianoGirl4444]

I always joke (seriously) about how I'd be insulted if I were nominated for a Grammy.  

I also joke (jokingly--haha) that my music's so bad I'm SURE to be a success!!  

 :lol:

[Laura]

I think Gwen is very talented...her tour was amazing. I've seen the Black Eyed Peas about 3 times & if you see them live in person & not just on tv, you would see why they get nominated & win grammys. But it does suck for other talented singers/songwriters who deserve to win them like Vanessa Carlton to so I don't know what to say.

I think Gwen is very talented...her tour was amazing. I've seen the Black Eyed Peas about 3 times & if you see them live in person & not just on tv, you would see why they get nominated & win grammys. But it does suck for other talented singers/songwriters who deserve to win them like Vanessa Carlton to so I don't know what to say.

I never said Gwen wasn't talented.  She's proven with No Doubt that she is a talented song writer, but her solo album was pitiful.

And unless Gwen and TBEP sang completely different lyrics at those live shows, then they would still suck.  I would think they did indeed put on fun, energetic shows, but nothing can change the fact that those songs are terrible.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with liking either of their albums.    Everyone is free to have their own tastes.  But it would be hard to argue that those albums with those songs and those lyrics were OBJECTIVELY good.  

The point that I am making is that the Grammys are supposed to be given to the year's BEST in music.  Not to the most popular names or profitable albums.  It isn't like this is a new phenomenom or anything.  The Grammys have always catered to the most popular stuff no matter what its actual quality is.

This is why the question of whether a talented artist like Vanessa would be honored just to be nominated for a Grammy because of its prestige, or would she be more embarassed to be grouped with all the other crap that gets nominated intrigues me.

[Laura]

And unless Gwen and TBEP sang completely different lyrics at those live shows, then they would still suck.  I would think they did indeed put on fun, energetic shows, but nothing can change the fact that those songs are terrible.

Unless you've experienced seeing them live, I don't think you can pre-judge that the songs will still suck. I respect your opinion & I didn't like them either until the second time I saw the BEP's at Wango Tango.. they were VERY fun & energetic. I've never seen an act have the audience participate as much as they had us participate except for The Backstreet Boys. I understand that it's the lyrics issue, but what happened to liking music that you can just have fun & dance to at shows? I didn't understand why they always got nominated for things either, but seeing them 3 times definitely changed that.

The point that I am making is that the Grammys are supposed to be given to the year's BEST in music. Not to the most popular names or profitable albums. It isn't like this is a new phenomenom or anything. The Grammys have always catered to the most popular stuff no matter what its actual quality is.

Who says the most popular names can't be this years best in music? Just because you don't agree that they shouldn't have been nominated because of their lyrics, doesn't necessarily mean other people have the same opinion. I think it depends on the group itself, concerts, their fans, etc. That's what i'm getting at about the live shows. But I do respect your opinion.

I often end up in mini arguments like this when I'm talking about music or film, or any kind of art for that matter.  I have a hard time conveying the difference between objectivity and subjectivity to others.

I never said something can't be popular AND good.  What I'm trying to say is that not everyting that is popular necessarily is good.  And just because you like something doesn't make it good.  

I really like the movie Killer Clowns From Outer Space (cracks me up) and I don't much care for Gone With the Wind.  But I wouldn't say that KCFOS is better than GWTW!   On the contrary, KCFOS is a HORRIBLE movie.

The Grammys aren't supposed to be voting on TBEP or Gwen's dexterity for involving fans at their shows; they are supposed to be voting strictly on the quality of the songs on their albums.

And there's no way you can tell me that there wasn't five songs or albums better than TBEP or Gwen in the categories which they got nominated this year.  I'm tone deaf so I never critique music, but even if their music was flawless, an A+, their lyrics on those albums were F's.  That averages out to a C.  Is that the best this year had to offer?

There is a difference between liking something and critically analyzing its quality.  Normally for me, liking would be all that mattered, but this is not the Viewer's Choice Awards.  The Grammys are supposed to be objective, but they are not and they never have been.  I didn't expect this to be called into question, I just wanted to know how people felt about the dubious honor.  Would they embrace it because of its prestige, or be embarassed to be grouped with the people who actually wrote the lyrics to My Humps etc.[/i]

[nosticker]

The Grammies have always been an industry-wide self-congratulatory joke.  With a few rare exceptions, if the album doesn't sell, it will not be recognized.  What that translates into is "That artist put out a brilliant album, but as it didn't sell, it did not lubricate the gears of the biz, and did NOT help to keep me, a music biz type, in good supply of drugs and hookers.  That is bad."

I remember when Pearl Jam won a Grammy, and Eddie Vedder seemed confused, saying something along the lines of "Uh....I don't know what this means.....", and walked off stage.

I love that guy.


Dan/NS

[joann]

The Grammies have always been an industry-wide self-congratulatory joke.  With a few rare exceptions, if the album doesn't sell, it will not be recognized.  What that translates into is "That artist put out a brilliant album, but as it didn't sell, it did not lubricate the gears of the biz, and did NOT help to keep me, a music biz type, in good supply of drugs and hookers.  That is bad."

I remember when Pearl Jam won a Grammy, and Eddie Vedder seemed confused, saying something along the lines of "Uh....I don't know what this means.....", and walked off stage.

I love that guy.


Dan/NS

he said
"I have no idea what this means. I don't think this means anything."


heh

[Laura]

And just because you like something doesn't make it good.

You practically just used my words... "Just because you don't agree that they shouldn't have been nominated because of their lyrics, doesn't necessarily mean other people have the same opinion" and it doesn't mean it's not "good" to other people.

And there's no way you can tell me that there wasn't five songs or albums better than TBEP or Gwen in the categories which they got nominated this year.  I'm tone deaf so I never critique music, but even if their music was flawless, an A+, their lyrics on those albums were F's.  That averages out to a C.  Is that the best this year had to offer?

Maybe they thought the song & the quality was good, even if you don't think it was. Don't get me wrong, there are a ton of other amazing artists, I listen to a lot of independent stuff, so I know what everyone is getting at about this. BUT obviously the BEP's & Gwen's MUSIC had an impact on a larger amount of people, or they wouldn't have even been nominated. Not to say that other singers/songwriters' music didn't have an impact on people.. just saying their music had a larger impact, even if you & a few others don't agree.

I didn't expect this to be called into question, I just wanted to know how people felt about the dubious honor.  Would they embrace it because of its prestige, or be embarassed to be grouped with the people who actually wrote the lyrics to My Humps etc.[/i]

I'm sorry to question you, but if you don't wanna be questioned, don't single out artists like you did.. maybe that's why you get into mini-arguements, because fans of theirs will stick up for them. I'm not just gonna sit back while a couple of my favorite acts are getting put down like this. Everyone is aloud to have opinions & I just happen to like them & am not afraid to say mine, even when I know the majority of people here are going to agree with you. I haven't argued on this board in ages, so obviously I believe strongly in this & I'm just gonna agree to disagree.

[nosticker]

The Grammies have always been an industry-wide self-congratulatory joke.  With a few rare exceptions, if the album doesn't sell, it will not be recognized.  What that translates into is "That artist put out a brilliant album, but as it didn't sell, it did not lubricate the gears of the biz, and did NOT help to keep me, a music biz type, in good supply of drugs and hookers.  That is bad."

I remember when Pearl Jam won a Grammy, and Eddie Vedder seemed confused, saying something along the lines of "Uh....I don't know what this means.....", and walked off stage.

I love that guy.


Dan/NS

he said
"I have no idea what this means. I don't think this means anything."


heh

I like him even more now.

Dan/NS

PS Great to hear from you, Ms.Terror.

You practically just used my words... "Just because you don't agree that they shouldn't have been nominated because of their lyrics, doesn't necessarily mean other people have the same opinion" and it doesn't mean it's not "good" to other people.

Subjectivity- the beauty is in the eye of the beholder, personal opinion that is never right or wrong

Objectivity- an unbiased assessment of something based on facts, has nothing to do with whether ANYONE likes or dislikes the product in question, personal opinion is not taken into account

This discussion would go on forever because I am unable to convey the difference of these two words to you.  This is my fault.  I know you think you get it, but you're really aren't interpreting the meanings properly and I don't know how to explain it any more clearly than I already have.  I'm sorry.  Trust me, it's more frustrating for me, because I know exactly where you're coming from and I can't figure out how to communicate my point to you.

 BUT obviously the BEP's & Gwen's MUSIC had an impact on a larger amount of people, or they wouldn't have even been nominated. Not to say that other singers/songwriters' music didn't have an impact on people.. just saying their music had a larger impact, even if you & a few others don't agree.

Their music had an impact on a larger amount of people because it was dumbed down for the masses and had a bigger marketing machine behind it than other stuff.  At one time, TBEP were underground.  They wrote very edgy lyrics with a great deal of social commentary, but they couldn't sell albums or get Grammy recognition despite their critical acclaim.  So they decided to sell out and sign with a big record label, completely change their songs from social commentaries to simple, relatable stuff, and hire some attractive white girl to shake her ass in their videos and sing every once in a while.  

Now TBEP sell tons of records and get nominated for Grammys even though critics who don't get their paychecks from the same corporations that own record labels go off on tirades everytime TBEP are mentioned because the critics know TBEP threw away their integrity for fame. (critics from the kinds of mags you would find at Barnes & Noble like Rolling Stone etc. don't count, because they are owned by the same companies that own record labels and they are pretty much all in collusion)

Subjectively- I don't know what you think of TBEP underground stuff, and you like their new stuff

Objectively-(where neither my opinion or yours matter)  TBEP underground = good, TBEP now = bad

This is what I've come to understand by reading/listening to experts who have the kind of frame of reference to come to an objective conclusion.

I'm sorry to question you, but if you don't wanna be questioned, don't single out artists like you did.. maybe that's why you get into mini-arguements, because fans of theirs will stick up for them. I'm not just gonna sit back while a couple of my favorite acts are getting put down like this. Everyone is aloud to have opinions & I just happen to like them & am not afraid to say mine, even when I know the majority of people here are going to agree with you. I haven't argued on this board in ages, so obviously I believe strongly in this & I'm just gonna agree to disagree.

Don't get me wrong, I like these mini-arguements and I LOVE the fact that you are willing to defend your opinion and stick up for your artists.  Even though we completely disagree, or rather I can't convey to you the difference between subjectivity and objectivity, I still respect the hell out of you for standing up for what you believe.  
:thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:

[whitehouses81680]

I love you.
And I agree.

i second that

[Laura]

Don't get me wrong, I like these mini-arguements and I LOVE the fact that you are willing to defend your opinion and stick up for your artists.  Even though we completely disagree, or rather I can't convey to you the difference between subjectivity and objectivity, I still respect the hell out of you for standing up for what you believe.  
:thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:

Thank you.

[amberbeads]

Gwen Stefani makes me ears bleed.