aftermath: Operation: Iraqi Freedom, how do you feel?

[jlmusicchick]

Well thats an interesting theory, however our attitudes are actually unknown to them, they only know what they see in the media (newspapers, tv, radio), they do not know what our attitudes are, they know what the attitudes of the government are....so really you just reitterated what i said, thanks

yes and no. i think the government plays a big part in how much we really know about what our country is doing, and the ramifications of it. Look at what Bush was saying about this war, how it's a war on terror and Sadaam needs to be taken out and yada yada yada. He went on and on about how Sadaam has weapons, and we believed him. Now they can't find any, and we've gone and bombed and killed thousands of innocent people....I can see how that might send a bad impression to other countries.

However it's up to Americans to look past what the government is telling them. There are resources to European and other foreign, unbiased newspapers. Instead of watching the ABC news, i watch the BBC news. They gave a larger cover on what the war was really like, and how it was effecting (affecting? i never can remember which one to use) the rest of the world. It's up to the individual as to how much they're going to rely on what the government is telling them, and how much they're going to find out on their own.

other countries can tell how ignorant we are not only by tv and the media, but also because we travel in thousands to overseas attractions everyday. I'm sure they're bound to encounter us sometime.

[Grakthis]

yes and no. i think the government plays a big part in how much we really know about what our country is doing, and the ramifications of it. Look at what Bush was saying about this war, how it's a war on terror and Sadaam needs to be taken out and yada yada yada. He went on and on about how Sadaam has weapons, and we believed him. Now they can't find any, and we've gone and bombed and killed thousands of innocent people....I can see how that might send a bad impression to other countries.

However it's up to Americans to look past what the government is telling them. There are resources to European and other foreign, unbiased newspapers. Instead of watching the ABC news, i watch the BBC news. They gave a larger cover on what the war was really like, and how it was effecting (affecting? i never can remember which one to use) the rest of the world. It's up to the individual as to how much they're going to rely on what the government is telling them, and how much they're going to find out on their own.

You desperatly need to do your research before you start spouting off.  You really are just making yourself look dumb to the people who actually know something.
---Andrew

[Logikal X]

yes and no. i think the government plays a big part in how much we really know about what our country is doing, and the ramifications of it. Look at what Bush was saying about this war, how it's a war on terror and Sadaam needs to be taken out and yada yada yada. He went on and on about how Sadaam has weapons, and we believed him. Now they can't find any, and we've gone and bombed and killed thousands of innocent people....I can see how that might send a bad impression to other countries.

However it's up to Americans to look past what the government is telling them. There are resources to European and other foreign, unbiased newspapers. Instead of watching the ABC news, i watch the BBC news. They gave a larger cover on what the war was really like, and how it was effecting (affecting? i never can remember which one to use) the rest of the world. It's up to the individual as to how much they're going to rely on what the government is telling them, and how much they're going to find out on their own.

You desperatly need to do your research before you start spouting off.  You really are just making yourself look dumb to the people who actually know something.
---Andrew

I agree, whether you like it or not Saddam was a jerk and people were suffering in that country,  The BBC potrays the USA completely negatively, while our new completely positive...or as i see it, just an opinion, i dont think our country is all that great, but i know that i love it here, and sure as hell wouldnt want to live in BRITAIN...(no offense to the wonderful british nessaholics, i love you guys)

[rroo]

At least the BBC is independent. Something which can't be said about the US news channels. Here CNN almost got kicked off the cable because the pentagon had too much influence on what they were showing. Because of CNN and some other channels the europeans saw everything. In the US the news that might've had a negative influence on public opinion was left out. So please don't claim you know everything about this 'war', because you don't, you just think you do.

[PintOGuinness]

<SAVE THIS SPACE>

[Grakthis]

At least the BBC is independent. Something which can't be said about the US news channels. Here CNN almost got kicked off the cable because the pentagon had too much influence on what they were showing. Because of CNN and some other channels the europeans saw everything and in the US lots of it was left out, because the news might have a negative influence on public opinion. So please don't claim you know everything about this 'war', because you don't, you just think you do.

Do you actually believe this?!?  BBC is no more independant than CNN, NBC, CBS or Al-Jazeera.  If you think otherwise, then you desperatly need to do some research on the topic.

You officially just destroyed any credibility you might have had in this argument right there.  I love it when people remove themselves from a discussion that easily!
---Andrew

[LimeTwister]

At least the BBC is independent. Something which can't be said about the US news channels. Here CNN almost got kicked off the cable because the pentagon had too much influence on what they were showing. Because of CNN and some other channels the europeans saw everything and in the US lots of it was left out, because the news might have a negative influence on public opinion. So please don't claim you know everything about this 'war', because you don't, you just think you do.

Do you actually believe this?!?  BBC is no more independant than CNN, NBC, CBS or Al-Jazeera.  If you think otherwise, then you desperatly need to do some research on the topic.

You officially just destroyed any credibility you might have had in this argument right there.  I love it when people remove themselves from a discussion that easily!
---Andrew

would you suggest taking information from all the networks, or would that just confuse people?

[rroo]

At least the BBC is independent. Something which can't be said about the US news channels. Here CNN almost got kicked off the cable because the pentagon had too much influence on what they were showing. Because of CNN and some other channels the europeans saw everything and in the US lots of it was left out, because the news might have a negative influence on public opinion. So please don't claim you know everything about this 'war', because you don't, you just think you do.

Do you actually believe this?!?  BBC is no more independant than CNN, NBC, CBS or Al-Jazeera.  If you think otherwise, then you desperatly need to do some research on the topic.

I did do some research, but you obviously didn't as you only say everyone is wrong without giving any reason for it. It's a true fact that the CNN didn't show certain news because your government forced them to. The BBC showed it all.

You officially just destroyed any credibility you might have had in this argument right there.  I love it when people remove themselves from a discussion that easily!
---Andrew

I don't claim I know everything. You act as if you do, but all you do trying to make people look foolish. Take some discussion classes. When you pass those I'd love to talk to you about some other topics, like the Kyote agreement and the US election system.

[Logikal X]

At least the BBC is independent. Something which can't be said about the US news channels. Here CNN almost got kicked off the cable because the pentagon had too much influence on what they were showing. Because of CNN and some other channels the europeans saw everything and in the US lots of it was left out, because the news might have a negative influence on public opinion. So please don't claim you know everything about this 'war', because you don't, you just think you do.

Do you actually believe this?!?  BBC is no more independant than CNN, NBC, CBS or Al-Jazeera.  If you think otherwise, then you desperatly need to do some research on the topic.

You officially just destroyed any credibility you might have had in this argument right there.  I love it when people remove themselves from a discussion that easily!
---Andrew

would you suggest taking information from all the networks, or would that just confuse people?

'


HELL YES Andrew! HA, we know those bastards arent independant, let us rejoice in our knowledge of the clearly obvious :wink:


And Joey, yeah i kinda think you can only take so much from every news source....they are all about as equally unreliable

[Logikal X]

[
I did do some research, but you obviously didn't as you only say everyone is wrong without giving any reason for it. It's a true fact that the CNN didn't show certain news because your government forced them to. The BBC showed it all.

Well the BBC is independant from the American government OBVIOUSLY, lol...however you think for one second that if a troop of soldiers saved a bunch of babies they would be showing that too? hell nah i dont believe it..or if they did they would probably say we were only doing it to look good and not for the babies lives.  However i will give the BBC slightly more credit than CNN.

[NoelleNC]

weeeeeee

[PintOGuinness]

I'm afraid that because some of the opponents of the war do not see a pretty picture they deem the entire action a failure.  This could not be further from the truth.  War/Fighting/Militray Action/ Stabilization/ Peace Keeping is not pretty, it is not easy, it not always wrapped up in perfect packages and things don't always go the way you plan.  There are contingeny plans after contingency plans and when those fail you have to sometimes think on the fly.  And sometimes things simply don't work right.

We accomplished a hell of a lot in Iraq.  We removed a torturous dictator from power and continue to hunt him to wherever he runs.  We are ever vigilant to protect the Iraqi people fromt he pockets of supporters that remain and work every day to esablish some kind of order and stability in their country.  The United States and Great Britain have soldiers still putting their lives on the line for the protection of Iraqis every day.. even as several continue to lose their lives.  We have, in fact, found mobile chemical production labs and many long range weapons.  Intelligence leads have indicated that other weapons may have already been smuggled into other countries or to terrorists groups thanks to the stalling of the UN...  

And news everywhere is skewed...  there is always a spin of some sort...  The mainstream in the US is so Liberal biased it's disgusting... FOX News I love because it has arefreshingly conservative slant... BBC is a bit more open but has issues... Reuters disgusts me  with their "scare quotes"...  and the Arab media is decidedly no better at all...  with Al Jazeera blatantly ignoring Geneva convention regulations...  fact is.. all media has their own spin... The US Media... The Uk media... the Arab Media...  it's a pointless argument to say one did not...

Simply put, this was not meant to be pretty.. if you are bashing it because it wasn't clean enough for you then I'm sorry maybe you need to shield yourself from a lot of the real world.  This is what a war is like... people die... not always the intended ones... plans change... missions succeed... missions fail...  I repect everyone involved except for those who sit back and spout negativity while never actively educationg themselves on what they are talking about (from the homemaker to the superstar).

[LimeTwister]

Simply put, this was not meant to be pretty.. if you are bashing it because it wasn't clean enough for you then I'm sorry maybe you need to shield yourself from a lot of the real world.  This is what a war is like... people die... not always the intended ones... plans change... missions succeed... missions fail...  I repect everyone involved except for those who sit back and spout negativity while never actively educationg themselves on what they are talking about (from the homemaker to the superstar).

I wasn't concerned on how "clean" it was.  It's not our job to take out leaders of countries.  He said they were a threat, and so far they weren't a threat.  So when that plan failed he decided to liberate Iraq, yet by watching specials on differnt channels, most Iraqi's couldn't even go back to work in like May.

I'm not sure how the status is over there now, since the stations aren't really showing it anymore, the soldiers stated back then "we aren't police" but who was going to be police?  

You're right I didn't know too much about the war, though I watched the news, listened to broadcast, and some of the stuff was just stupid.  You have N. Korea pleading for attention saying "WE HAVE WMD AND NOT AFRAID TO USE THEM" and we go bombing a country that we have to search for WMD.

What is N.Korea, the perfect leadership?

YAY the leadership is gone! Now try to convince the rest of the world that...

[Grakthis]

I did do some research, but you obviously didn't as you only say everyone is wrong without giving any reason for it. It's a true fact that the CNN didn't show certain news because your government forced them to. The BBC showed it all.

I do all kinds of research on every topic I talk about.  Because if I dont know anything about a subject, I dont comment on it.  So when I do comment, it's because I have an informed opinion.

I'm not posting evidence or arguments about WHY you are wrong because I dont want this to turn into a debate.  Because this debate has been done 100 times already and i'm trying to spare people the agony of another 2,000 word post.

But at the same time it is against my nature to let someone post BS unopposed.... so at the least I want to tell people that you ARE wrong and let them to do some research on their own to figure out WHY.

Yes, it IS a fact that CNN didn't show everything.  I never disputed this.  It's also a fact that BBC didn't show everything because CNN showed pieces BBC didn't.  At the same time, Al-Jazeera showed things NEITHER CNN or BBC showed, but Al-Jazeera was STILL heavily censored.

The truth is in the pieces gathered from MANY sources.

When you research a topic for college/highschool/career do you just look
at one source?  Of course not.

I don't claim I know everything. You act as if you do, but all you do trying to make people look foolish. Take some discussion classes. When you pass those I'd love to talk to you about some other topics, like the Kyote agreement and the US election system.

When I pass discussion classes?  LOL.  Good stuff.   Good times, noodle salad.  I'm not even gonna take THAT bait.

Is throwing out the KyotO (not Kyote) agreement supposed to impress me? Like i'm not familar with it and you're gonna stump me with your superior political knowledge?  Try spelling it right if you are going for THAT angle.

I kinda did a science emphasis in environmental stuidies in college including environmental geology and economics so i'm more than familiar with global warming and the Kyoto Agreement.

If you wanna stump me, pick a different topic.  I can throw out a few topics I'm ignorant about if you need the help....
---Andrew

[PintOGuinness]

Joe... The WMDs still remain a threat.  Very possibly a major threat to the region and to the world.  Current intelligence says that it is very possible that while our good friends France and Germany were stalling in the UN, Saddam Hussein was able to move most of them accross borders, more than likely into Syria, possibly into Iran.  So yes, teh WMDs very well may STILL be a huge threat to A LOT of people.

As for the Iraqis not being able to work.  Thir work force had over 65% of the entire population working for the government of Iraq.  In a normal legitimate society this could never happen.  This led to severe lack of funds to thier humanitarian organizations and every day service organizations because of the need to pay these government salaries.  The reason many of the Iraqis could not return to work, is of course because to stabalize a new government you can not have so much government dependancy.  The jobs were not there.  Now in fact, regent has agreed to continue to pay some of the government salaries while things are being stabalized bythe sales of Iraqi oil... so there Iraq will sustain its people on its own...

And I still watch frequent reports on FOX News about what's going on in the Middle East so if you're not seeing anythign being reported maybe you should just change the channel...

As for N. Korea...  the reason we didi not focus so heavily on North Korea is clearly obvious...  The reast of the world supports action against North Korea.  If we don't focus on them, Japan and a bunch of others sure as hell will step in... that was certainly not the case with iraq.

Finally... and I'm sure you wont like this much:

We're not surprised, but we expect the demented wing of the Democratic Party will be quite agitated, that a new Washington Post/ABC poll finds Americans blasé about the lack thus far of weapons finds in Iraq. Sixty-seven percent of those polled approve of the way President Bush is handling the situation in Iraq, while a mere 30% disapprove. That's a shift of only eight percentage points toward disapproval at a time when Bush's opponents have been working themselves into a lather about the president's purported "lies." Asked if the liberation of Iraq would be justified even if no weapons of mass destruction are ever found, 63% said yes and only 23% said no.

The poll also asks the following question:

Thinking about another country in the region: Would you support or oppose the United States taking military action against Iran to prevent it from developing nuclear weapons?

Fifty-six percent support military action against Iran, while only 38% oppose it. And we thought we were hawkish.