Religion

[sayyouwould]

monkeys are a great race,too,you know.

[Holly]

I think the main difference looking at it from a Christian perspective is Catholic's worship in a more cerimonial and ornimental way.

Catholics have baptism, communions, rosarys, crossing them selves before going into prayer, confirmation, and they say the Hail Mary and Our Father prayers a lot. I've been to masses at a few different places and I can always expect the same things. The singing, prayers, the readings, the sermon, the communion, the exchange of peace (i like this part!)... etc.
Christians just basically rely on their faith to worship. We do get baptised (I did 3 years ago), but other than that there are no big religious ceremonies. Church basically consists of singing gospels (or in high school worship we sometimes sing contemporary worship songs), praying and the sermon. It's just more basic, and though I have no problem with the way Catholics do it, I prefer it that way. I'm strong in my faith, and I don't think I need anything else. I'm more spiritual then religious (by the book) though, so I guess that's why I like it.

[kev222]

i don't believe religion can be debated- since no one knows what happens after death, how can one religion proclaim to be right against all other religions?

Belief systems (read religions, but I hate that word) can always be debated if they make anything more than pure faith claims (what happens after death is a perfect example of a pure faith claim). Any Christian belief system that takes the bible as it's foundation does this, as does any "Pro-science" (;-)) belief system. In fact I think most do, so they can be debated on the validity of those claims.

-Kev

[Grakthis]

I think the main difference looking at it from a Christian perspective is Catholic's worship in a more cerimonial and ornimental way.

Catholics have baptism, communions, rosarys, crossing them selves before going into prayer, confirmation, and they say the Hail Mary and Our Father prayers a lot. I've been to masses at a few different places and I can always expect the same things. The singing, prayers, the readings, the sermon, the communion, the exchange of peace (i like this part!)... etc.
Christians just basically rely on their faith to worship. We do get baptised (I did 3 years ago), but other than that there are no big religious ceremonies. Church basically consists of singing gospels (or in high school worship we sometimes sing contemporary worship songs), praying and the sermon. It's just more basic, and though I have no problem with the way Catholics do it, I prefer it that way. I'm strong in my faith, and I don't think I need anything else. I'm more spiritual then religious (by the book) though, so I guess that's why I like it.

Truth

But you know why christian churches have so little pomp and circumstance?  Because they try to avoid anything that is specific to any one christian sect. They only do things that are common to them all.  For example, if I am not mistaken, all christian sects believe in breaking bread and wine as a sign of faith.  But only the Catholics (maybe a few others... not sure about Baptists) believe in Transubstantiation.  Which is why in a christian church they don't ask you to kneel when the host is in the tabernacle or on the alter.  Etc etc etc.

The key is, the catholic church says that divine belief comes from three sources.  Divine Inspiration, Scripture, Tradition.  The catholic church recognizes the New and Old testaments (less so the Old... old is looked at primarily as an illustrative set of stories for Catholics) and Tradition are all major sources of Faith.

However, christian churchs don't have tradition.  They let each member bring their own tradition from their own individual faith.  They just unite in their belief in the NEW testament and not in the OLD or in tradition.

And to piggy back on what Kev said, while things like pure faith cannot be argued, you CAN argue the basis of faith.  For example, the moment I say "I believe in the afterlifer BECAUSE the Bible says 'BLAH!'"  then you and I can argue about that interpretation of the Bible.

[PIBby]

Specifics. It's all we want. All I'm saying, is my Pastor, preaching at Our Mother of Sorrows Catholic Parish, should have said Catholic, rather than Christian. If he wants, he can go to Southeast Chrsitian and preach, it's fine with me.

It's like lecturing at a seminar for Oriental Businessmen, and saying to the Asians, "People of many races." It doesn't work. The note on your desk SPECIFICALLY said Oriental Businessmen. If you happen to be white and go to the seminar, don't plan on taking offense and suing for racial injustices - Because the Post-It said Orientals. The stone above Church says Our Mother of Sorrows Catholic Church, meant for Catholics. It's fine if you're white and want to learn about business with the Orients, but don't plan on the lector picking you and 45 of your closest friends out of the crowd and not even paying attention to the Asians.

[Grakthis]

Specifics. It's all we want. All I'm saying, is my Pastor, preaching at Our Mother of Sorrows Catholic Parish, should have said Catholic, rather than Christian. If he wants, he can go to Southeast Chrsitian and preach, it's fine with me.

It's like lecturing at a seminar for Oriental Businessmen, and saying to the Asians, "People of many races." It doesn't work. The note on your desk SPECIFICALLY said Oriental Businessmen. If you happen to be white and go to the seminar, don't plan on taking offense and suing for racial injustices - Because the Post-It said Orientals. The stone above Church says Our Mother of Sorrows Catholic Church, meant for Catholics. It's fine if you're white and want to learn about business with the Orients, but don't plan on the lector picking you and 45 of your closest friends out of the crowd and not even paying attention to the Asians.

You ever heard of visitors?  How do you think you become Catholic?  It just magically happens?  Generally you start going to Catholic mass before you become baptized Catholic.

Your pastor was being INCLUSIVE.  Which is a GOOD thing for a speaker to do.  If you specifically only address ONE group in the audience than you alienate the other group.  No matter how small it is, alienating an audience you want to read is a bad thing (tm).

You call yourself Catholic?  Fine.  WWJD.

You honestly think Jesus would sit here and quibble about how the "damn dirty christians" shouldn't be included in the pastors sermon?  Because, by GOD it's a CATHOLIC Mass and if the non-Catholic christians want to be included they can go to 6 Flags over Jesus and pray.

How terribly CHRISTIAN of you, CeCe.

[PIBby]

Nope, he's being EXCLUSIVE of US - The Catholics! Without us, he wouldn't be PREACHIN' in a Catholic Church.

(Did I mention he continuously said Christians and never once said Catholics?)

[TSE]

Yeah Cece, what about the 6 RCIA Catechumens who are sitting in the from row at the 10 AM Mass?  What about them?

[rosieposy87]

Nope, he's being EXCLUSIVE of US - The Catholics! Without us, he wouldn't be PREACHIN' in a Catholic Church.

(Did I mention he continuously said Christians and never once said Catholics?)

Errr no, if catholics are a small circle in the middle, he was preaching to a larger circle that still includes the Catholics. Why can't you see that? Catholics are Christians.

And please, don't act like he's somehow so privelidged to preach in a Catholic church. And that he's not worthy of your wooonderful congregation. With views like yours, he's got a hard job to do.

[Grakthis]

Nope, he's being EXCLUSIVE of US - The Catholics! Without us, he wouldn't be PREACHIN' in a Catholic Church.

(Did I mention he continuously said Christians and never once said Catholics?)

Do you listen? TO anyone? Ever?

Maybe if I type it in all caps you will PAY attention.

CATHOLICS ARE CHRISTIANS.  CATHOLICISM IS A SECT OF CHRISTIANITY.  THEREFORE, BY DEFINITION, HE WAS INCLUDING YOU.

[divasteph]

I'm a little Jew girl.

mee too!!!

Shell - If you are in high school and anywhere on the lax side of judaism (conservative or reform) you should join NFTY and go to UAHC or Kutz Camp during the summers - i think being a part of NFTY was the most significant religious and fun thing i ever did growing up -- check it out --- http://www.nfty.org
the director of the national NFTY office is Hope Chernak and she and I have been friends for years if you have any questions you can contact her!

xoxo

[Holly]

Yeah, I agree Catholics are Christians! But since I'm a Christian, but not Catholic, my Christianity is different than Catholics. Like I go to mass, but I never take communion.
It's funny, I'm not Catholic, but I've been to more masses than any other service in the past 4 years.

[Grakthis]

Yeah, I agree Catholics are Christians! But since I'm a Christian, but not Catholic, my Christianity is different than Catholics. Like I go to mass, but I never take communion.
It's funny, I'm not Catholic, but I've been to more masses than any other service in the past 4 years.

Actually, your CHRISTIANITY is identical.  Christianity is the one thing you have in common.  It's the other stuff that is different.  It's the ceremony, beliefs on faith, and the old testement.

Catholics and Christians agree 100% on the Christian beliefs.  For example, there isn't anything that would be defined as a Christian belief that Catholics would disgree with.  There are MANY things that would be defined as a Catholic belief that Christians would disagree with.

This falls under my fav latin term, Res Ipsa Loquiter.  By the very definitions of the belief systems Christianity and Catholicism, the above statements MUST be true because Catholicism IS a Christian belief.

Kinda like how a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not neccesarily a square.  Everything that is true of a rectangle MUST also be true of a square.  But everything that is true of a square doesn't have to be true of a rectangle.

[Holly]

I meant my Christianity as a whole is different. Being that the way I worship is a part of it, not only what I worship!
I already stated that we believe in the same things... but do things differently.  :roll:  :lol:

[xxjenniferxx]

http://www.thedilly.com/forum.wtd?results=posts&thread_id=4&topic_id=76939
Debates without Grakthis... 8O  :mrgreen: