disappointed?

[hearingballads]

I just received my album today so I don't to be impulsive, but I admit I was disappointed with the album. I was expecting more of Vanessa's classical music similar to the style of Harmonium and less poppy alternative sounds like the actual Heroes & Thieves. Not to say I don't like the songs, I just prefer the more classical folk Vanessa music more than alternative style Vanessa music. It just sounds too studio-synced which took away the brilliance, authentic-ness, originality of Vanessa's music. I guess listening to this album made me realize how much I enjoy listening to folk/classical type of music by Vanessa. I really hope that her next album is less alternative and poppy. I LOVE Vanessa's style. I hope she preserves it, saves it for the next album.

AND I was disappointed with "Hands On Me." Why did they have to make one of my favorite songs on the album so alternative. RUINED it for me. I thought all her live performances of hands on me were amazing, heart-felt, personal, just the way I imagined her studio version to be. But NO it just isn't the same. I really wanted a nice clear, quality version of Hands On Me with the traditional piano and V's voice, and perhaps violin in the background. ARGH.

Not to say I don't like Spring Street or Come Undone but I would take those out any day for All is Well and Best Behavior--top 4 songs on the album. I guess the album wouldn't be a story--themed based album anymore, but I just wished that they could include them as bonus tracks. It's not fair to make the fans buy the extra tracks later on, on iTunes. I really hope the general public will have exposure to these songs, if they ever come out.

I'd love to invest more on Vanessa, but I believe the bonus tracks should have been included into the CDs that'll sell--exposure for the songs. Let's hope it'll still happen.

As you can tell, I'm really passionate about this. It's only because I love Vanessa's music. I just wished that this album could be more classical. I'll just have to keep listening, and keep trying to find my way to some sort of peace with the way it came out.

But I absolutely love the ballads: Home (turned out well just like live performances) and Heroes & Thieves.

And about The One, it's not as bad as everyone says about stevie nicks sounding like a...i don't wanna say it. I think Vanessa's voice only would have been the best decision for the good of the song, but stevie nicks is such a big inspiration to her--as a mentor, as a friend, as her idol. I think it's great how excited vanessa is about her being on the track. I can accept stevie nicks..."     " up the song if Vanessa can live with it. haha.

I AM looking forward to attending Vanessa's haunted club concert in the near future!!!!

[amberbeads]

I was expecting more of Vanessa's classical music similar to the style of Harmonium and less poppy alternative sounds like the actual Heroes & Thieves.

honestly i think heroes and thieves stands alone in terms of style; it's the only song on the record that reminds me of BNN.

[IfICouldFall]

I was expecting more of Vanessa's classical music similar to the style of Harmonium and less poppy alternative sounds like the actual Heroes & Thieves.

honestly i think heroes and thieves stands alone in terms of style; it's the only song on the record that reminds me of BNN.

probably because the arrangement sounds a LOT like Ordinary Day? hehe.

[amberbeads]

maybe. i never paid that much attention and i haven't listened to BNN in like a year.

[hearingballads]

you know what I've realized, perhaps her producers before from harmonium would have done a better job. I feel like a lot of songs were butchered because of poor producing. Some of the vocal arrangements were too slow. I expected fools like me to be a tad bit faster and not as rigid. I expected the one to be faster, and the music in the background felt wrong. LIke the background was off key and vanessa was singing perfectly. The violin in the background didn't fit the song. There weren't enough orchestra music for some songs unlike harmonium. I thought each song in Harmonium had brilliant and perfect amounts of orchestra music. A lot of songs didn't sound right. When the song should climax, it doesn't feel climaxed. The arrangements are all over the place. I really hope the next cd doesn't get screwed up like this one. This is my personal opinion, i hope I didn't offend anyone. Unfortunately I wish she could redo this cd. It feels wrong. I really didn't like More Than This's choir part, so corny. I'm sorry Vanessa, if you're reading this. but that's just how I feel.

[tylor2000]

I'm not disappointed in the album as much as I'm aware she needs to start up her career again and I think this is the right direction.  She has the right people behind her for that.  It's not a bad album; in fact it is a great album.  I believe it is a true depiction and honest album.

I remember my mother listening to stevie nicks' music and could totally feel the vibe, but there is a reason why I'm not a big fan of stevie nicks and am a big vanessa carlton fan.  I love the cryptic almost incoherent ramblings of a girl pouring her heart out, over an unique musical expression many have described to have a touch of genius; a style so many other artists seem to be following  these days.  I agree with the statements stevie and irv have made about her.  I honestly believe vanessa is a creative genius who could be one of the great singer songwriters of her generation.  I'm not trying to put her on a pedestal but rather just restating what has already been said, in my own words.

As much as you might feel something is missing in the album, the very definition of creativity means you are always going to try to come up with something new.  Every album is going to be different with pros and cons.  It is definantly not missing a sense of creativity, and if it appeals to the larger mass of people by being overly this or overly that all the better.

[liquidblue244]

As you can tell, I'm really passionate about this. It's only because I love Vanessa's music. I just wished that this album could be more classical. I'll just have to keep listening, and keep trying to find my way to some sort of peace with the way it came out.

boo hoo..... :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:

[NoelleNC]

I like the album personally. There are a few songs on it that I don't think are great and could have used better/more subtle production (The One and Fools Like Me come to mind first), but in all I think it's a good variety. It's not too dissimilar from her other music in my opinion. She's always had a pop feel, and yeah, some of the songs on this album reflect that - I think in a good way usually. I really like how Hands On Me turned out. I didn't even like the live versions I'd heard that much because it sounded like a pop song lyrically and tonally, but she played it almost like a ballad which I never thought fit. I much prefer the lyrics "I first saw you at the video exchange" in a pop song to a piano ballad- in a piano ballad they just sound cheesy (to me).

However, I think Fools Like Me would have made an awesome, intense ballad. I don't dislike the album version, but I think it could have been a lot better slowed down with less of a pop feel. Live it's sort of a stormy and angsty song - reminds me of Swindler a little - but I guess she more wanted to reflect the positive side of the song over the negative. Oh well.

Anyway, I don't think it's selling out or anything to try a different sound for one album. Musicians do different concept albums all the time and if V continues this album might just ehance her repertoire. Idk, that's just what I think!

But Spring Street makes up for the whole album elsewhere in my opinion, I love that song. One of my favorites from her yet so far.

[Manda]

I don't know if this makes me a bad fan, but since I bought the CD I haven't really listened to it. I bought Rilo Kiley's Under the Blacklight and loved it so much a few days later I bought More Adventurous and have not listened to H&T at all.  8O

I've probably listened to it less than five times and not even the whole cd.

Shame on me.

[GiftedAzn259]

There is a difference in change and originality.

Make the change, but keep the originality.

Still like the album though  

[BurningDownLove]

Actually, I am disappointed, but if other people like it, that's great. I'm not going to try and change their mind... also, good on the people who are willing to admit that they don't like it and give their opinion... it's gutsy because on these boards, I've noticed that if you do, then pepole have a go at you. If you like the album, then no-one else's personal opinion should matter all that much to you, because YOU enjoy it ... so why get angry at someone who doesn't enjoy it? If you feel you must tell them that you disagree and why, then fair enough, but why argue and attack, rather than discuss? I don't get it.
Personally, I don't like the album because it's missing what Vanessa called the "goth" element that was woven into the demos, BNN, Harmonium (especially so), and other B-sides and live tracks. That's what I truly love about Vanessa's music. If that's not what makes you a fan of Vanessa than you may find nothing to complain about with H&T... but that's what attracted me to her music in the first place. I was never a fan of ATM, but when I borrowed BNN from a friend I loved Wanted, Twilight, Paint it Black, Sway, etc. and became a fan that way. That side of Vanessa seems to be absent in H&T.

You have to remember though, she wrote her first CD when she was just a teenager in a hardcore ballet school. She was at a really low place in her life and had to release it somehow. She was only a child.
Vanessa is approaching 30 now; her inspiration is coming from new experiences and emotions that comes with things we go through as we get older. Her lyrics are maturing because she has too, and we're lucky enough to have her sharing that with us.  
She couldn't keep that gothy kind of style forever, it'd be weird if she was still singing when she was 40 about those kind of things.   :lol:

ps) i'm not calling her old or anything...i'm just trying to get the point across that she's matured :-)

[BurningDownLove]

i have been a vc fan for a very long time...be not nobody was one of the first albums i ever owned.
i saw her live at the roxy earlier this year and i don't know when i was more excited for an album.
i must say i am thoroughly disappointed in heroes & thieves.

vanessa's performance at the roxy was epic...just her and her piano, and you could really feel the emotion and the beauty of the songs.

this album is totally pop synthesized.
i had an amazing live performance of hands on me that i loved, but on the album i feel like shes playing with a metronome. one of the mostbrilliant things about her work was her ability to switch tempo.

fools like me has by far the best lyrics of any song...especially the last 3 lines which i am obsessed with. but the instrumentals are completely overwhelming and take over the rest of the song.
i just don't understand why sooo many songs fail to have the piano as the lead instrument...i do not like vanessa because of her voice..i like her songwriting/pianoplaying/singing combo.

i just feel completely blindsighted...what artist does entirely acoustic live performances when their album is pop?



its frusterating that this album had 5 star potential and its only like a 3, MAYBE a 3.5

Since I'm a fan of her previous works, I'll give the album 3 stars. But H&T is just whack w/ a capital W, and I never thought I would say that. The only good song really is NF; I thought that was the precursor, the main theme of the rest of H&T; boy did I get played -- BIG time. I honestly don't know what V was aiming for the third round. I guess I'll ask her if I have the chance to meet her. I just hope it's different w/ the next record. *ignores immature critsism* When Van performs live, sometimes her vocals are off-key [probably b/c she's sick, tired or her voice is worn from so much singing], but other times she sounds really good, sometimes better than she does on the record [especially in her performances on Sessions@AOL and Rolling Stone Original and other live performances I don't have time to name].

On a lot of the album reviews for BNN [I haven't yet seen the ones for HARMONIUM], some say that the main problem w/ the album was that all of the songs pretty much sounded the same w/ Ron Fair running things and adding an orchestra and all. That's true, but I had absolutely no qualms about that b/c the material was pretty good [and entertaining to listen to and sing along w/ as well]. I also loved that the piano wasn't tweaked, her YAMAHA therefore maintaining its naturally beautiful, pristine sound [except on Wanted w/ the solo piano b/c the song had to have that 'studio' sound quality suitable for the album]. V's pretty voice was also easy on the ears, too [she sang her ass off in Wanted and Paint It Black].

For those of you who want to argue and be militant and hostile about my criticism of the H&T, I'm 'a just be the bigger person and ignore your idiotic comments. I don't like her latest album, no means no, like it, lump, back up and bump it, or whatever you wanna do. Y'all can kiss my curvy black ass -- and then go straight to hell, 'cuz I don't know you, and you don't know absolutely nothin' about me, either, just to be making such silly, childish, petty comments. I've tried to be nice and civilized, but it's obviously not working -- at all. I give up b/c people are impossible to please, anyway. It didn't work back in 2005, and it's definitely not working now. Some of you obviously have too much time on your hands, lest you wouldn't spend it retaliating by hurling nasty remarks at me and whining [like BIG, spoiled babies] about the fact that my opinions about Van's latest album are different from yours [among other things]. C'mon, chill da hell out; y'all are seriously making a mountain out of a mole hill. It's not that serious, you feel me?

Van is in this crazy thing called the music industry and I'm pretty sure she can accept the fact that not everybody's gonna love her and her music. Why don't y'all feel the same way? [Looks to me like Van is more secure in her talent and comfortable w/ herself than even her most devoted fans are, ironically]. She's a grown-ass woman who I'm pretty sure can handle her own bid'ness and not lose any sleep when someone hurts her feelings. People gonna do that to you for as long as you live, so you might as well get used to if, or else be miserable for the rest of your life [or even suicidal]. If people don't like the artists I listen too, then it's fine by me; their tastes are just different, that's all... or sometimes they just don't know what they're missin'. Ain't nothin' I can do but go on about my business. As long as you don't put your hands on me, you can say whatever you want. It ain't gonna bother me none. I don't even know why I'm explainin' myself to some of you, b/c it obviously ain't doin' no good. Some of you have been smokin' so much Mary Jane that it's blowed out your minds, and I can't reason w/ people who have baked brains. Either that, or some people can't stand the truth, 'cuz the truth hurts bad... if you're not one of those mature people who can stomach it. For that reason, it's impossible to have a reasonable, mature, civilized, poised discussion.

Ever heard the saying, 'I'm rubber, you're glue, and whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you?' ['Nuff said.] But in the meantime I'll get a good night's sleep b/c if I spend it quarreling w/ people who can't take anything deep I'll get sidetracked. The only thing I can do is pray for you. What goes around comes around. You reap what you sow. The very same way you're treating me, whether it's for bad or worse, someone's gonna revisit it back on you. That's all I have to say. I wish you the best, and God bless.

WHOA...i'm not reading all that  8O

[samil87]

I just typed a really long reply but I got logged out  :cry: It saves you guys having to read my drivel I suppose   .
Shorter Version:

I was dissapointed at first but now that I've given certain songs a chance, I love H&T, it's easily as good as her first two albums.
A couple of the intros make the songs dificult to get into- for Come Undone the intro isn't badly suited it's just bad.

I diasgree with people saying the album is overproduced, every song is artfully crafted, there's a lot going on sometimes but every instrument/sound compliments every other.
My favourite song (of the album and of Nessa's) is Hands on Me, the live version is good but the album version is amazing, serious it gave me shivers. I was really suprised that others were not so keen it, I think it's perfect.

Other album highlights for me are: Fools Like Me, it's just so easy to listen to, the piano part at the end of Home (there aren't even words to describe it), the intro (first 5-10 seconds) to The One is really cool and Spring Street, not the best sounding song on the album, but the lyrics are very real (applies to the whole album really) and I think everyone can relate to them at least in part.

It's understandable that Vanessa is so pleased with H&T, it's practically flawless, easilly as good as Harmonium and BNN.
I can get why some are disappointed with it though, I don't think not liking an album disqualifies them as fans and if they've at least listened to the album they have as much right to criticise it as we have to praise it.
The best thing about Vanessa is that's she changing her style (same as she did with Harmonium) and writing what she feels, look at Tori Amos and Sarah Mclachlan, both great singer/ song writers; every album is different and unique b/c as they mature and experience different things their music reflects that. She's doing the same as them, a lot of people need to stop focusing so much on what she's done with the music in the past and appreciate what she's doing now, we already have one BNN we don't need a second.

edit: only real disapponitment for me was that All is Well wasn't on the album, it was my most anticipated track (almost cried when I saw the track list :wink: ). Hopefully there's a studio version of it somewhere that we'll get to hear at some point   .

[MeganJane]

Actually, I am disappointed, but if other people like it, that's great. I'm not going to try and change their mind... also, good on the people who are willing to admit that they don't like it and give their opinion... it's gutsy because on these boards, I've noticed that if you do, then pepole have a go at you. If you like the album, then no-one else's personal opinion should matter all that much to you, because YOU enjoy it ... so why get angry at someone who doesn't enjoy it? If you feel you must tell them that you disagree and why, then fair enough, but why argue and attack, rather than discuss? I don't get it.
Personally, I don't like the album because it's missing what Vanessa called the "goth" element that was woven into the demos, BNN, Harmonium (especially so), and other B-sides and live tracks. That's what I truly love about Vanessa's music. If that's not what makes you a fan of Vanessa than you may find nothing to complain about with H&T... but that's what attracted me to her music in the first place. I was never a fan of ATM, but when I borrowed BNN from a friend I loved Wanted, Twilight, Paint it Black, Sway, etc. and became a fan that way. That side of Vanessa seems to be absent in H&T.

You have to remember though, she wrote her first CD when she was just a teenager in a hardcore ballet school. She was at a really low place in her life and had to release it somehow. She was only a child.
Vanessa is approaching 30 now; her inspiration is coming from new experiences and emotions that comes with things we go through as we get older. Her lyrics are maturing because she has too, and we're lucky enough to have her sharing that with us.  
She couldn't keep that gothy kind of style forever, it'd be weird if she was still singing when she was 40 about those kind of things.   :lol:

ps) i'm not calling her old or anything...i'm just trying to get the point across that she's matured :-)

I get your point, but I don't agree with it. Obviously you're right that she's got older and therfore is writing about different things. However, as for not being able to keep the "gothy kind of style" forever, I think that maybe personally she didn't continue with it, but "gothy style" isn't just a phase that "children" go through. Sure, it can be, but it can also be a part of a person's personality and individual nature that is completely valid (and not "weird"), whether they are 14 or 40 or whatever age. Also, it is completely valid for me to feel disppointed that that "gothy kind of style" is missing from the new album.

[Cheburashka]

I'm disappointed... all the songs sound the same. Still. I've given it a while to warm up to (of course, I ran and bought it the day it was released lol!) and I still just.... I don't know. The only songs that stand out are Fools like Me, Hands on Me, and the outro to Home. I really don't think that the lyrics have matured... in fact, I think it's a bit of a regression. On Harmonium it didn't seem like she was a slave to end rhymes, and Harmonium was more... metaphorical, I guess you could say. Heroes and Thieves is just... okay, this is what I'm writing about. The lyrics don't leave anything for interpretation. For instance, I had NO idea that Private radio was about Insomnia until she said so, I didn't know what it was about at all, really, and that's why I liked it. It had different meanings for whatever mood I was in.
And like I said, it all kind of sounds the same. The intro to The One sounding promising, but I hate it. I don't like to say that, but I really don't like that song. It sounds kind of corny and country to me. Then Come Undone sounding like Dark Carnival, like V revisiting her younger, darker self, but then.... it kind of got annoying after 45 seconds [I think you could all agree haha!]  and My Best sounded like C'est la Vie. Like she said, 'well, I have to use keyboards somewhere on this album.'
And what was with that little r&b noise in hands on Me? Or am I the only one who noticed that  :?  
But yes, I do love her alto voice now, though. I never knew she could sing so deep! And that showed especially in Fools like Me.
I guess after all these years of waiting, and all the crappy but endearing because they're crappy bootlegs, and intimate little gigs, I was expecting something GARGANTUAN. Like, God! This is really going to kick my ass!! But it didn't, and that makes me sad to be honest
But, a little bit of clumsiness is to be expected with a new record label. As long as she's proud with what she's accomplished and most of us are happy, then that's the important part. I just... I was kind of hoping for a slightly lighter [but still dark and pondering] Harmonium. She had so much to complain about, with all the crap she took from record labels, and she didn't! She got all lovey-dovey on me!
Alright. That's it, sorry! lol

*it's not that I HATE the album, it's just that's it okay. I don't love it like I love her first previous works.

[p.s. this was a long first post. Sorry! ]